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Featured Prayer: The Miracle of a Literal Super-Power

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Grumpuss, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Grumpuss

    Grumpuss Active Member

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    It's well-recognized that there are many things in our collective universe that cannot be adequately explained by science.

    Whether or not you follow an organized religion and have been blessed with the feeling of God's love, you will know that experience of deep meaning and understanding upon witnessing a birth or seeing a perfect sunrise/sunset.

    Communing with God provides a special connection to our universe and eliminating the awful feelings of confusion and loneliness that the lost and soulless are cursed with. There is ample evidence that people who pray regularly live longer, are happier and are more free from demon curses of drug abuse and sexual perversion.

    Behold the recent story of a pastor brought back from the brink of certain death, only by the prayer of those around the world that loved her:

    Miracle Healing, Released by the Power of Prayer, Touches Comatose Pastor on the Verge of Death

    Prayer is a literal super-power that can heal wounds, save lives and reverse fortune. When you pray, do you expect that God will hear your prayers and answer them in His own way, or do you do so, "just in case"? If you used to pray, but have stopped later in life, do you make the distinction between praying super-powers for yourself and others versus fantasy superpowers such as Spider-man or Aquaman possess? To me, it is wondrous that we have such a tool at our disposal, yet sad that we do not make more frequent use of it; if more people prayed regularly, there would be less war, famine, deviance and strife afflicting our beautiful world.
     
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  2. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Active Member

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    Yes, there are definitely many things that science cannot explain.
     
  3. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    There is. Which doesn't make other explanations of them any more true, of course.
     
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  4. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Active Member

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    So how do you explain them?
     
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Why do I need to?
     
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  6. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Active Member

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    Why do you need to assume that no God exists?
     
  7. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I really have no idea if there is any sort of God. I see absolutely no reason to believe in an interventionist God though. But even if I did, would every unexplained phenomenon on Earth suddenly be rendered explained?

    That seems a strange kind of hubris.
     
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  8. The Holy Bottom Burp

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    Thanks for the sermon, ever heard of the sharpshooter fallacy? It is where you pick out events that seem to confirm your biases and beliefs, ignoring the massive number of examples that don't. There are countless people who were ill, got prayed for, and didn't recover. Was the deity asleep on those occasions or did the sinners praying lack faith, so it decided to ignore them? Whatever dude, anecdotes (no matter how many find on religious websites) do not equal data.
     
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  9. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    You do not really need science to explain all those things. It would be like deployng a thermonuclear device to kill a mosquito.

    All those things are experienced by several religions, if not all. I expect that tribal religions have the same. And old religions probably, as well.

    Do you think those believers really communed with Apollo or the great Juju at the bottom of the sea?

    By the way, what happened to that pastor? Did he grow some lost limbs, or was the miracle another case of hidden internal medicine? By the way, shame on that pastor for not praying hard enough.

    I suspect the latter, just by induction on previous cases. It looks like no matter how much you pray, limbs seem to stay amputated. Down syndromes stay Down. Genetic diseases remain. Syamese twins stay merged. Bald patches stay bald. Wasted teeth, stay wasted. Etc. if you do not deploy human professionals.

    I guess God hates amputees and people with Down syndrome, among others. Which is good news for my friend working on prostetics. But He likes to help people with cancer, for some reason. Maybe He likes miracles that are as hidden as Himself, who can say?

    Don't you think so? I don't see any other logical explanation.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #9 viole, Jun 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  10. Nakosis

    Nakosis Barnacle Bill the Sailor
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    What do you mean? Prayer got Trump elected...

    Franklin Graham: The media didn’t understand the ‘God-factor’ in Trump’s win

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Active Member

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    Well, you're an atheist so I had thought you were pretty sure there is no God. I guess you're really an agnostic.
     
  12. sunrise123

    sunrise123 Darkness will pass. Dawn is almost here.
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    I'm going to partially agree with @Grumpuss that prayer has power. But to me the greatest power is in action - if one can, visiting the sick rather than praying for the sick, for example.

    I find the poem by St. Teresa of Avila most compelling (substitute for the word "Christ" if you are not Christian):

    Christ has no body but yours,
    No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
    Yours are the eyes with which he looks
    Compassion on this world,
    Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
    Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.
     
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  13. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    The two aren't mutually exclusive by their broadest definition. You can be an agnostic atheist, i.e: "I don't believe that there is a God, but I would not claim to know that there is no God".

    As to the OP, studies on the power of intercessory prayer have demonstrated that prayer actually has a notably smaller impact on the positive outcome of illness than random chance does and, in fact, not praying at all is statistically more likely to result in less medical complications.
    (SOURCE: Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI)
     
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  14. sunrise123

    sunrise123 Darkness will pass. Dawn is almost here.
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    Some find the "STEP" results to be inconclusive. Wikipedia has a list of studies Studies on intercessory prayer - Wikipedia

    Given how often medical studies are superseded by others showing the opposite (coffee is good/bad for you for example), I don't find the studies to date conclusive.
     
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  15. Nietzsche

    Nietzsche The Last Prussian
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    If more people just had happy thoughts there'd be less war? Are you ****ing serious? You don't think people in war-zones are praying?

    Does God just not listen to those actually in danger, or actually starving? For every one example of a supposedly "miraculous" recovery I can give you hundreds of people just left to die in the most horrible conditions imaginable.

    Was he just not listening to them?
     
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  16. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Prayer: The Miracle of Self-Reinforcing Delusional Bias.

    Fixed.
     
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  17. Grumpuss

    Grumpuss Active Member

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    Why believe in a God that abandoned His creation then? Prayer clearly works, though it's not as easy or quick as picking up a phone.
     
  18. Grumpuss

    Grumpuss Active Member

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    I think the correct term is "confirmation bias".

    Perhaps, yes. I don't presume to know God's will. Merely wanting things isn't enough. God intercedes as He sees fit, but he doesn't automatically reward sinful behavior either. Someone who is addicted to drugs or engages in unnatural activity might have to put in a bit of work first.
     
  19. Grumpuss

    Grumpuss Active Member

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    Perhaps not hard enough, no.

    And yet, those people continue to live somehow. Despite overwhelmingly nasty conditions of famine, pestilence and death, those people continue to live and be blessed with children. No, they don't get to drive a Toyota Prius, get the newest Android phone or tickets to Hamilton, or whatever you consider evidence of success and thriving. Your value system appears deeply flawed, if you think material wealth in heathen societies where genitals are mutilated and albinos are hunted for their "magic", is automatically bestowed.
     
  20. Nietzsche

    Nietzsche The Last Prussian
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    Right. I'd like to introduce you to some people who lost their families in Srebrenica.

    I'd like you to tell them that.

    "Blessed" with children? What sort of monster would give children to people suffering from a famine?

    I would consider "not starving to death" to be a good start.

    I find it very interesting the over-whelming majority of these "miraculous" occurrences are from modern, Western society. Where modern medical care has done everything it can. Including getting rid of the thing actually causing the majority of her problems, the uterine tumor. And even after that, keeping her alive to give her time to come out of said coma.

    In other societies people just die from that kind of thing. Because they don't have a way to keep said comatose individual alive. Or they just can't spare the food and water to someone who isn't able to contribute to their society because as I said, they're already starving.
     
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