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Prayer - Coincidence? Divine Intervention?

Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
French Admiral d'Anville sailed for New England commanding the most powerful fleet of the time - 70 ships with 13,000 troops. Intending to recapture Louisburg, Nova Scotia and destroy everything from Boston to New York, Massachusetts Governor William Shirley declared a Day of Prayer and Fasting, October 16, 1746 to pray for deliverance.

Bat the Boston's Old Soul Meeting House, Rev Thomas Prince prayed "Send thy tempest, Lord, upon the water... matter the ships of our tormentors!"

Historian Catherine Drinker Bowen related that with the finished prayer, the sky darkened, winds shrieked and church bells rant "a will, uneven sound... though no man was in the steeple."

A hurricane sank and scattered the entire French fleet.

History of Prayer in America
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
KenS said:
French Admiral d'Anville sailed for New England commanding the most powerful fleet of the time - 70 ships with 13,000 troops. Intending to recapture Louisburg, Nova Scotia and destroy everything from Boston to New York, Massachusetts Governor William Shirley declared a Day of Prayer and Fasting, October 16, 1746 to pray for deliverance.

Bat the Boston's Old Soul Meeting House, Rev Thomas Prince prayed "Send thy tempest, Lord, upon the water... matter the ships of our tormentors!"

Historian Catherine Drinker Bowen related that with the finished prayer, the sky darkened, winds shrieked and church bells rant "a will, uneven sound... though no man was in the steeple."

A hurricane sank and scattered the entire French fleet.

History of Prayer in America
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Coincidence.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Left Coast said:
Why would God take sides between two Christian empires battling to control land that wasn't theirs to begin with?
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Who knows, honestly. G-d chooses whom He chooses to do what He Wills. It likely seemed odd to the Israelites that He chose the Babylonians to exile them for 70 years. It likely seemed odd to the British at the time of their defeat in the war with the Americans, but look at the US now. We can't see the consequences.
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
KenS said:
Need more specifics... too broad
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Evasion noted. The point is that endless people have prayed for completely uncontroversial reasons, saving an innocent child's life for example, and not been answered.

There is zero evidence that prayer makes any difference in the real world, so citing a a few examples (over many, many years) couldn't be less convincing. Of course sometimes people will pray for something and it will happen - you wouldn't expect anything else, but unless you can demonstrate a statistical correlation, it's meaningless.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
ratiocinator said:
Evasion noted. The point is that endless people have prayed for completely uncontroversial reasons, saving an innocent child's life for example, and not been answered.

There is zero evidence that prayer makes any difference in the real world, so citing a a few examples (over many, many years) couldn't be less convincing. Of course sometimes people will pray for something and it will happen - you wouldn't expect anything else, but unless you can demonstrate a statistical correlation, it's meaningless.
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I disagree.

I could just as easily say that cancer treatments don't work because an innocent child died.

Evasion deemed fake news.
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
KenS said:
Maybe because of the heart? One seeking to destroy vs one who isn't?
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Recapturing land does not mean "destroying" it. They were aiming to do the same thing the British had done. Again, why would God take sides in such tit for tat imperialist crap between two authoritarian regimes?
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
KenS said:
I could just as easily say that cancer treatments don't work because an innocent child died.
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Nonsense. Medical treatments are subject to double-blind trials, so we have the statistical evidence. There is no such evidence for prayer. A few isolated examples and anecdotes are no substitute for objective evidence.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Lyndon said:
All I know is that that I, and millions of other Americans prayed for trump to be defeated, and God answered our Prayers
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And the people of Israel wanted a king (which God gave) and later they complained about it. :)

PS Your prayer is still in flux. :)
 
Erebus

Erebus

Well-Known Member
KenS said:
Bat the Boston's Old Soul Meeting House, Rev Thomas Prince prayed "Send thy tempest, Lord, upon the water... matter the ships of our tormentors!"

Historian Catherine Drinker Bowen related that with the finished prayer, the sky darkened, winds shrieked and church bells rant "a will, uneven sound... though no man was in the steeple."

A hurricane sank and scattered the entire French fleet.
Click to expand...

Perhaps their prayer was answered by Poseidon? Or perhaps Poseidon ignored the prayer but was unhappy with somebody on one of the French ships? Hey, maybe Satan answered their prayers. If they were willing to ask God to kill people, Satan might have seen it as an opportunity to claim some souls.

If you choose to interpret this as a miracle, what makes you think it was God who performed it?
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
It is likely that in the relating of this tale the part that goes "...with the finished prayer, the sky darkened..." was embellished and that instantaneous-ness of the storm coming added for effect. People are widely known to embellish their stories, because it captivates an audience better. Especially in historic accounts, because they knew there was literally no one who could prove their claims wrong (with what today would be weather reports, video recordings, and historical transcription or news recounting times that events took place). And with what we can witness with regard to storm patterns - especially those of great magnitude - there is usually quite a fair bit that one can see on the horizon before the apex reaches the observer. So, it is likely just a bald-faced lie that the storm just jumped into action right after the prayer ended. The people in the story (much, much) more likely saw the approaching storm and figured a nice little prayer time couldn't hurt in the hope that the storm was headed for the path that would thwart the attackers' coastal approach.

Let's also keep in mind that this storm and the smashing of ships it would likely take to scatter a whole fleet would also likely mean the deaths by drowning of many of those involved. Prayer for destruction of that magnitude is a prayer for the death of others. Or at the very least, a prayer made without respect for the endangering of lives involved.
 
epronovost

epronovost

Well-Known Member
KenS said:
A hurricane sank and scattered the entire French fleet.
Click to expand...


Actually most of the fleet arrived in Acadie though damaged and with most of the soldiers dying of diseases caused by malnutrition. Note that the attack wasn't completely stopped either since the expedition of Anville was supposed to hook up with the much smaller expedition of Ramezay who did launched several succesful raids against british colonies and manage to crush the much larger british forces in Acadie led by Colonel Arthur Noble. It would take another ten years for the British to take control of the region and deport it's French population and slaughter their Native allies. The Treaty of Aix-La-Chapelle would return all French and British actors in North America to their starting position and set for the 7 years war that would see all French possession in North America conquered except two minuscule island off the coast of Newfoundland.
 
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