Prayer and selfabuse does it brainwash you?

[Left Coast]

I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone fasting to prove/disprove god. Most do it as a act of devotion for a god/dess they already believe exists.

Yes, I tend to agree. It's more a confirmation of preconceived ideas than anything. There's a reason people's religious visions and dreams tend to align with the religious worldview they already have.

 

[Lain]

I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone fasting to prove/disprove god. Most do it as a act of devotion for a god/dess they already believe exists.

Not sure about others but I myself do that kind of thing. The reason is I read the blurb about Anthrosophy on Wikipedia early on in my looking into spiritual things to see if they were real, and it said:

"Anthroposophy is a philosophy founded in the early 20th century by the esotericist Rudolf Steiner that postulates the existence of an objective, intellectually comprehensible spiritual world, accessible to human experience. Followers of anthroposophy aim to engage in spiritual discovery through a mode of thought independent of sensory experience. They also aim to present their ideas in a manner verifiable by rational discourse and in studying the spiritual world seek comparable precision and clarity to that obtained by scientists investigating the physical world."

I never become one or read in full a single work of his except a minor thing about spiritual exercises to develop certain faculties to do daily (like doing a random thing at a random time [you choose the thing and time then do it each day] each day as an act of the will, an incredibly difficult, for me at least, act of discipline). But the idea of studying and testing spiritual stuff like anything else massively appealed to me, so I just started testing things, if it "works" predictably then I kept doing it. So testing for God (with all the things mentioned in this thread, but also isolation and vigils/sleeplessness) is something I've recommended to many people, it either is or isn't, like the Lord Jesus said "come and see."

 

[Spirit of Light]

If God is real then I think I should test it by going up the way their followers who can see them did

When I talk to people who pray and fast a lot all of them seem to have got the same kind of things happen, a vision
Why look at a debate on YouTube if it can be tried for me?

Do you have faith in God? Without faith in God and the willingness to let God guide you, the fasting can be dangerous for sure, if you never fasted over a long period of time you would benefit from having a doctor checking your vital state during your fasting.
And please don't do it on your own first time.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

What if it is all brainwashing?
Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

Spoiler: Brick's comments about the health and safety of fasting

I once attempted to fast for 7 days. I made it to day 5. Since then I have gathered more knowledge about fasting, but I have not been fasting.

Fasting has health benefits if you do it properly. First of all, you should learn about how to maximize these benefits. Secondly you must get your sleep, and you must exercise the right amount. Secondly you should not expect to experience visions or super powers. What you will experience mentally is: heightened awareness. You'll be able to think a little bit more easily and will have more mental energy (probably). It may help you during meditation exercises or other strenuous mental efforts. You may also feel irritable sometimes after day 3, so be careful not to let yourself be annoyed by anyone around you. What you will experience physically is: improved and increased body repair. Do not fast from water. I have tried this. It is stupid to do this. Every day you should have water, and you should urinate. If you cannot urinate then you have not have had enough water (or you could have a serious health condition). Drink water.

Avoid coffee. Coffee will dehydrate you, and it will also make you hungry later in the day. This means you will lose some of the benefit of fasting, because you will be distracted by hunger. Normally you should not feel very hungry while you are fasting. It is not the same as starvation. Starvation is not fasting. It is unhealthy and does not help you, and it robs you of strength.

For many people it is dangerous to fast at all, however most people can fast a little and gain some benefits. One danger is that your muscles can atrophy. If you fast you have to use your muscles, or your body will use them for food. Every day they must be exercised enough. You don't lose fat only but also can lose your muscles, so you must find out how much to work in order to keep your muscles. Otherwise you will find your body grows weak quickly. You must also watch your blood sugar levels. Some people cannot fast. For some it is quite deadly. Shorter fasting periods are safer than longer ones.

Fasting increases your body's production of human growth hormone. Usually this is a good thing. This means it helps you to repair your body. Some claim that it slows aging. I suspect it slows some kinds of aging and increases others, since aging is a function of growth. It is your choice whether to fast and to increase your human growth hormone. You only need to fast for 12+ hours to begin experiencing this effect. If you fast longer you will increase the effect up to the 3rd day. 3 days is a long time to fast. I'd say any more than that and you start to experience more negative effects, but I am not a doctor. That's what I think based on my single attempt to fast for seven days. I also have done 12, 18, 24 and 36 hour fasts. They are not difficult. Be careful what you eat though. Don't eat things that digest poorly or anything that makes gas.

If you plan to fast a lot, then you should read about the health aspects. The more you fast, the more knowledgeable you ought to be. You can hurt yourself, or you can help yourself. Ignorance is not good and will waste the benefits of your fast.

Those are merely my comments about health, and you should read from a doctor about how to fast in a healthy way. The more times you intend to fast, the more knowledgeable and confident you should be. You should become more healthy when you fast -- not less healthy. Do it the right way, or don't do it at all.

Since you are fasting to help you in prayer, you should expect (in my opinion) unusual awareness on the 2nd or 3rd day of a fast, assuming you are healthy enough to fast for that long. This will not help you with all kinds of prayer, but I think it will help you with meditative prayer. You are focusing and are thinking. After that I am not sure, and I think that you will start to be distracted by hunger. After the 5th day I don't know, because I've never made it past the 5th day.

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

If you are careful not to over-do it, you will maintain your ability to think and will not be brainwashed. Brainwashing schemes try to break down your ability to think and try to undermine your will. Simple fasting does not do that. People shouting at you does.

What if it is all brainwashing?

Your mind is like a hot coal. Put some wood on it, and the flames will spring back up. Do a little bit of reading or some kind of mental exercise. Memorize multiplication tables or learn to memorize lists of items. Practice something skillful, such as sewing, cooking or making things. Your mind will spring back.

Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

Brainwashing happens when you doubt your ability to know right from wrong. When you give that away and say "Master tell me if this is right or wrong" then you are being brainwashed. When you are beaten for no apparent reason and believe that the beating is good, then you are being brainwashed. But when you discipline yourself and empower yourself to be master of your appetites you strengthen your mind.

 

[VoidCat]

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

What if it is all brainwashing?
Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

My only concern is trying to do so and not checking your vital signs and I'd be worried about health issues. However if you want to do so it's fine not really brainwashing one thing to caution tho:
If you are on meds some meds do require food to work. Talk with your doctor about that. Most religions allow you to eat with meds when fasting. And if they don't I'd consider strongly going against that rule and taking your meds with food anyway especially if it's needed to survive.

You can't, that's what makes it fun!!!

I don't know if this was supposed to make me laugh but it did. Very true.

 

[JustGeorge]

My only concern is trying to do so and not checking your vital signs and I'd be worried about health issues. How ever if you want to do so it's fine not really brainwashing one thing to caution tho:
If you are on meds some meds do require food to work. Talk with your doctor about that. Most religions allow you to eat with meds when fasting. And if they don't I'd consider strongly going against that rule and taking your meds with food anyway especially if it's needed to survive.

This is very true. With Ekadashi fasting, there are different routes one can take. My doctor explained its set that way per people's physical capabilities. It may not be healthful for one person to entirely forgo food, even for a day, but it may be exactly what another person needs.

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

Practicing anything and using any tool makes it part of your mind and how you think/live. Reading anything likewise does the same. I do not believe anyone wills an act without some degree of hoping that it will work. If all of that (which I just said) is what you mean by "brainwashing" then it is indeed that but so are innumerable other things in life.

Interesting perspective , why do you think it is called brainwashing sometime?

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

If you didn't eat for a month and have never fasted, I think brainwashing would be the least of your concerns.

I went not eating before but it was needed not wanted

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

I'm a faster, but I've never gone a month... nor would I want to.

I think people with all their 'must eat this way' rules tend to be a bit more brainwashed, regardless of what their own eating 'rules' are. Fasting is a way to step out of that. One builds the discipline to step away from mere comfort for a higher purpose(that purpose being different per each faster).

I'm not sure how prayer is brainwashing. Perhaps if someone else is telling you that you must repeat so much and in such a such way... But I find it hard to view spontaneous prayer or a specific path of prayer of one's own choosing to be brainwashing.

I had in purpose to say certain ones repeatedly over and over and over like I see people doing

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

I guess you need faith that God is real and listening; if you do then how is it brainwashing? How is it brainwashing yourself if you're in control the whole time? Is it that scary to change your perspective a little bit and try something new?

As for not eating it's good for you if you do it sometimes. Unless you have some health concerns that prevent fasting.

In any case for the average person going without food occasionally is beneficial for their health and could help them spiritually as well. I wouldn't suggest doing it for a month straight though. If that's really important to you then you could build up to that.

I don't know if its going to be scary, people who see angels said it was scary

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

Visions may be a function of altered mental status resulting from being dehydrated or hungry. How would you distinguish a vision that's really of God and one that's just a function of your brain playing tricks?

I don't know , how do you do it? Maybe it's all the same kind of thing

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

I used to fast for three or more days fairly frequently. It helps one achieve an altered mental state that is conducive to self-exploration. It is no doubt due to the induction of starvation ketosis. This occurs once hepatic stores of glycogen (glucose storage form) are exhausted, when the body begins metabolizing fats for energy, a process that generates ketones, and later, acidosis (low blood pH). Acidosis potentially dangerous (ketoacidosis can cause death in type I diabetics, but these people are very sick unlike the fasting person). Acidosis from starvation is much less likely to generate an acidosis than that due to insulin deficiency.

Incidentally, when the ketosis appears is about when the hunger ceases.

When I was doing this, I would monitor my urine for acidity and the presence of ketones using urine dipsticks to determine when I was there. In that state, I was more contemplative, and things seemed more profound, like some other drug-induced mental states. And I don't think of it in terms of self-abuse. How about self control and self-exploration?

That's a good look on it thank you for showing how it works
Did you ever see a God when you did it?

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

My only concern is trying to do so and not checking your vital signs and I'd be worried about health issues. However if you want to do so it's fine not really brainwashing one thing to caution tho:
If you are on meds some meds do require food to work. Talk with your doctor about that. Most religions allow you to eat with meds when fasting. And if they don't I'd consider strongly going against that rule and taking your meds with food anyway especially if it's needed to survive.
I don't know if this was supposed to make me laugh but it did. Very true.

I don't go to the doctor right now but I'll be healthy as possible, thank you

 

[Leahpolitan_icecream]

Do you have faith in God? Without faith in God and the willingness to let God guide you, the fasting can be dangerous for sure, if you never fasted over a long period of time you would benefit from having a doctor checking your vital state during your fasting.
And please don't do it on your own first time.

I think a God exists but I want to make sure, I want to see how they are

 

[Left Coast]

I don't know , how do you do it? Maybe it's all the same kind of thing

I don't think there is a way to do it. Private visions and dreams and so on can always be explained as functions of our brains instead of something outside of them.

 

[Lain]

Interesting perspective , why do you think it is called brainwashing sometime?

People make a judgment about what is or is not real or what is and is not worthwhile and categorize everything they see based on that. So one man's brainwashing is another's education. There is nothing new under the Sun.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

What if it is all brainwashing?
Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

If you deprive your body of necessary things, like food, or oxygen, or sleep, you can get your brain to start hallucinating. And yes, if while you're hallucinating you are continually praying to receive some sort of message or 'vision', you can very effectively brainwash yourself into believing that your hallucinations are reality.

 

[Sheldon]

I guess you need faith that God is real and listening; if you do then how is it brainwashing? How is it brainwashing yourself if you're in control the whole time?

Ahem...

 

[lukethethird]

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

What if it is all brainwashing?
Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

I stopped eating when I found God, haven't taken a bite since. The only thing that keeps me going now is Gin., don't have time for brainwashin.

 

[firedragon]

I want to try praying and not eating like everyone says is good to do but I have a concern about it.
If you repeatedly pray and selfabuse by not eating for a month does this make your brain expect something and make you think it is all true?

What if it is all brainwashing?
Why is it not brainwashing yourself?

In a world where people around the world are getting into various diets, and intermittent fasting, to call fasting "self abuse" is just a dogmatic, religious, faith statement, not a rational, critical statement.