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Pragmatic argument against the border wall

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by lewisnotmiller, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Okay, so this topic can be a little done to death.
    Some say it's a waste, or grandstanding. Some say the US has the right to determine who enters the country. Some even say both at the same time.

    I found the following article interesting. It appeals to my nature, as I get older, since I'm more pragmatist. Ideals are great, and I have strong opinions about some things. But turning strong opinions into meaningful action doesn't happen by more strongly advocating my opinion. It requires achievable plans.

    Anyways, here is the article....

    Why Trump Will Never Get His Border Wall - The Atlantic

    Basic premise is that any discussion of a wall spanning the border is impractical, citing a particular portion of Texas which won't have a wall built, regardless of what the theory of the exercise is.
    Interested in opinions on this, but not too interested in the same 'wall good' or 'Trump bad' type of discussions that have been done to death.
    Moreso, does the article appear credible? I think so, but I'm a long way from Texas. To those who support the wall, does this matter? Is it splitting hairs and missing the big picture?
     
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  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    First I have heard of this but on first glance I believe the government has the right of Eminent Domain.

    My grandparents had to sell their house in Michigan to the government for a fair price to allow the construction of a freeway. Even more questionable was the taking of many houses to allow a private company General Motors to build a plant in the city of Detroit against the strongest opposition the residents could muster (and to rub salt in the wound GM may be closing that plant in the near future). It was an old Polish neighborhood called Poletown and here is a recent article: Poletown Plant Closing after Eminant Domain Land Seizure

    These people in Texas may have lawyers but that will only stall the process for a time would be my prediction.
     
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  3. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    El Paso was one of America's most dangerous cities rampant with illegal alien criminality; then as soon as a border barrier there was built, presto, El Paso became one of the safest cities in America.

    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report shows that El Paso’s annual number of reported violent crimes dropped from nearly 5,000 in 1995 to around 2,700 in 2016
     
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  4. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    That's pretty explicitly addressed in the article actually. The key point is where you said 'stall the process for a time'.

    That time would appear to be very long, based on previous example in the same area where Obama tried seizing land. And government overpays that occurred in resolving those issues have set a price precedent (or at least, potentially, based on the article) which would make land seizure prohibitively expensive. Far outweighing the wall cost, even.
     
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I'm not here to argue the merits of the wall. As I said in the OP, that has been done to death, and devolves into 'wall good' or 'Trump bad' arguments.

    I'm interested in your thoughts on the ability and practicality of the government building a wall through the land areas outlined in the article.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity holy roly poly
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    From the beginning the words do not matter. Political parties have been like that for centuries, despite occasionally flipping on issues. The words are always like shields or magnetic poles. Disagreement is the goal not the accidental problem. There is something about it that keeps the political parties afloat.
     
  7. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    The question is why did that happen. Probably not because of any wall.

    During the same period, the rate of violent crimes reported per 100,00 population fell by a similar degree nationwide, from 684.5 in 1995 to 386.6 in 2016..

    It's also been shown the illegal immigrants are less violent than the average American citizen, meaning that the more of these immigrants that one has in one's community, the lower the local violent crime rate will be.
     
  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    and what would stop a collective of concerned citizens from building a wall?
     
  9. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    strange it is.....I've never heard the word....
    booby trap

    hand grenade .....or ....drone

    or the catch phrase.....self righteous indignation
     
  10. fantome profane

    fantome profane quintessence of dust
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    This is the kind of post that makes people who want a wall sound like hateful violent racist xenophobic bigots. To call for shooting at a “silhouette” of a racial stereotype is disgusting. It is dehumanizing and encourages real violence.
     
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  11. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

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    If you want to spend your time and money building that wall. go right, ahead.

    just because I don't support the wall, does not mean I support illegal immigration.
     
  12. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

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    The article does seem credible as it is old news about the court battles already going on over eminent domain during Obama. Many of the largest land owners have had their land since Mexico owned it. That land on the Rio should be left as it is. The people there should know well enough if there is a need for a barrier. The land is already patrolled. The large and wealthy land owners there don't want a wall or to give up their land. And then there was this:
    “But nobody thinks a 30-foot wall will do anything more than invite 32-foot ladders." “Border security is critical,” Yeats continues. “But there’s a big difference between a wall and security.”

    Both are valid points in the article. And the money going into the law suits could easily pay for better intake facilities and more agents and patrols.
     
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  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    actually......posting a warning on your property is required

    you can't just open fire
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    oh....btw...

    my mother is Spanish

    VERY Spanish

    ALTOGETHER....Spanish

    likely more Spanish than people who think they are Spanish
     
  15. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    as for me.....American

    and I happen to believe border crossing is illegal
    inappropriate

    and we Americans have died trying to protect the borders of other countries
    and failed

    looks like we are going to fail here too
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I think we do our dead and wounded vets a dishonor

    we go over seas to help in territory problems

    and fail here at home
     
  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    So is speeding.
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    arrest and jail time
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    last I heard.....and it might be a poor comparison.....

    20mph over the limit is wreckless driving
    and the fines are stiff
    jail time up to a year

    is that right?
     
  20. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Lets start locking up for more for 2mph over. In fact how do we not have a 3 strikes rule for this yet.
     
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