Practical Big problem: Epicureanism and Stoicism

[Lunarious]

Hello

From what i've seen i'm stoicist. In Norwegian we have a saying everyone knows but don't understand, usually; stoic calmness.

I used to tell them when they put me in compulsory "treatment", calmly, pain or pleasure don't mean a anything, what means anything is the word compulsion (supported by the law). That is stoic. I have proof. But now i've been with them for over a decade, and still their not happy. The best they think i ammount to is: Neutral. Although they say i'm agressive. They put me in belt bed like 10-40% of the year, i haven't been agressive (agressor) offensive 1 of 1000 times.

They put me in a vase
And told me: Adapt
But i'm not water (Water is fear and love, mostly fear, fight-flight, mostly flight)
I'm from the heavens clay (earth; Mouintains, lands. Water; Sea. A kingdom or piece of it)
And if my vase is too tight for my growth, it breaks!
...
They gave me a silence that speaks eternally.

Please help me help you, if that is my fate (again Stoicism)

Peace

 

[David T]

Hello

From what i've seen i'm stoicist. In Norwegian we have a saying everyone knows but don't understand, usually; stoic calmness.

I used to tell them when they put me in compulsory "treatment", calmly, pain or pleasure don't mean a anything, what means anything is the word compulsion (supported by the law). That is stoic. I have proof. But now i've been with them for over a decade, and still their not happy. The best they think i ammount to is: Neutral. Although they say i'm agressive. They put me in belt bed like 10-40% of the year, i haven't been agressive (agressor) offensive 1 of 1000 times.

They put me in a vase
And told me: Adapt
But i'm not water (Water is fear and love, mostly fear, fight-flight, mostly flight)
I'm from the heavens clay (earth; Mouintains, lands. Water; Sea. A kingdom or piece of it)
And if my vase is too tight for my growth, it breaks!
...
They gave me a silence that speaks eternally.

Please help me help you, if that is my fate (again Stoicism)

Peace

Well here on the oregon coast where we get 80-200 inches of rain a year we are very stoic and definitely get the Norwegian saying "there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing."... I might add "yes its cloudy and rains a lot but the sunny days are the best here as well". There is nothing like a sunny day where I live and the rain makes it that way".

 

[Lunarious]

Well here on the oregon coast where we get 80-200 inches of rain a year we are very stoic and definitely get the Norwegian saying "there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing."... I might add "yes its cloudy and rains a lot but the sunny days are the best here as well". There is nothing like a sunny day where I live and the rain makes it that way".

In your coast, i guess like you say, its like Norway in temprature.

They say winter is good for introverts, and summer good for extroverts. I think they are one and separated by a mediocrit government because of ignorance.

It is possible to enjoy rainy and sunny days with a onepointed non dualistic attitude. I suffer from introversion (not shyness) and virtue and intelligence. They tortured me and keep inflicting pain on me! Norwegians are silly in my experience, their special forces is the worlds best.

Peace

 

[David T]

In your coast, i guess like you say, its like Norway in temprature.

They say winter is good for introverts, and summer good for extroverts. I think they are one and separated by a mediocrit government because of ignorance.

It is possible to enjoy rainy and sunny days with a onepointed non dualistic attitude. I suffer from introversion (not shyness) and virtue and intelligence. They tortured me and keep inflicting pain on me! Norwegians are silly in my experience, their special forces is the worlds best.

Peace

Being an artist no matter where you live is always the same. "NORMAL IS CRAZY"... peace. Oh BTW the whole black metal burning down old stave churches In scandinavia was bored suburban city kids acting very Christian!!! Lol not even original. Apparently John Muir is obscure in Europe.

 

[Nakosis]

Hello

From what i've seen i'm stoicist. In Norwegian we have a saying everyone knows but don't understand, usually; stoic calmness.

I used to tell them when they put me in compulsory "treatment", calmly, pain or pleasure don't mean a anything, what means anything is the word compulsion (supported by the law). That is stoic. I have proof. But now i've been with them for over a decade, and still their not happy. The best they think i ammount to is: Neutral. Although they say i'm agressive. They put me in belt bed like 10-40% of the year, i haven't been agressive (agressor) offensive 1 of 1000 times.

They put me in a vase
And told me: Adapt
But i'm not water (Water is fear and love, mostly fear, fight-flight, mostly flight)
I'm from the heavens clay (earth; Mouintains, lands. Water; Sea. A kingdom or piece of it)
And if my vase is too tight for my growth, it breaks!
...
They gave me a silence that speaks eternally.

Please help me help you, if that is my fate (again Stoicism)

Peace

Fake acquiescence.
Figure out how to beat them at their own game.

The more resistive you appear to folks who hold any authority over your existence the more they will attempt to control you.

While it may not sit well with some, seeing it as capitulation, I see it as a game you want to win.

If you can understand what motivates a person you can control them.

Maybe this sounds a bit sinister but I just see it as people skills.

 

[Lunarious]

I agree. Thank you. I was put on hold since forever, by them since 20 years. Now i've read some and learned, because originally i was a virtuous heart with a spiritual soul, i saw with my inner eye, now i've sought knowledge. This is what they want, and I will give them, i will send them for torture. I am serious. All of them. If they disbelieve, i won. If they believe then they are my brothers and i have to share the war booty with them. Not good.

I've been in 10 years pluss compulsory treatment, and now God knows if i'm out of energy. It's time to ambus.

This is people skills indeed. I don't need motivation or anything from them, because their actions are witness against them. I surrender my will to Allah, and he will awaken me in the future (next life for me and them).

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Hello

From what i've seen i'm stoicist. In Norwegian we have a saying everyone knows but don't understand, usually; stoic calmness.

I used to tell them when they put me in compulsory "treatment", calmly, pain or pleasure don't mean a anything, what means anything is the word compulsion (supported by the law). That is stoic. I have proof. But now i've been with them for over a decade, and still their not happy. The best they think i ammount to is: Neutral. Although they say i'm agressive. They put me in belt bed like 10-40% of the year, i haven't been agressive (agressor) offensive 1 of 1000 times.

They put me in a vase
And told me: Adapt
But i'm not water (Water is fear and love, mostly fear, fight-flight, mostly flight)
I'm from the heavens clay (earth; Mouintains, lands. Water; Sea. A kingdom or piece of it)
And if my vase is too tight for my growth, it breaks!
...
They gave me a silence that speaks eternally.

Please help me help you, if that is my fate (again Stoicism)

Peace

Life is a poem, but those who do not see this suffer even if they are in paradise.
I was incarcerated in an assylum for refusing to serve in the apartheid army
nearly 30 years ago.

The Truth was with me and facing certain death with a poetic heart, it was that silly
government of infidels that destroyed itself around my faith. It took just 3 days.
Then I was freed, and half hated me, the other half knew my victory was God's victory.

Stay true to the poem that Allah has written for you, and watch the infidels
dissipate like shadows on the purest morning.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I'd love to have a serious conversation about Epicureanism and Stoicism. Epicurus was the good master among the Greeks, if any of them were. He cared about universal well-being, and saw in terms of humanity rather than only the Greeks. He was also a vegetarian because he was concerned with the well-being and pleasantness of other sentient life. In my opinion, we find no figure in western antiquity more admirable than Epicurus the philosopher. What do you like about these philosophies?

 

[Lunarious]

I'd love to have a serious conversation about Epicureanism and Stoicism. Epicurus was the good master among the Greeks, if any of them were. He cared about universal well-being, and saw in terms of humanity rather than only the Greeks. He was also a vegetarian because he was concerned with the well-being and pleasantness of other sentient life. In my opinion, we find no figure in western antiquity more admirable than Epicurus the philosopher. What do you like about these philosophies?

How do you know that?
It sounds Buddhist bias.
In Islam we are inspired by Plato and Aristoteles. Platos approach is called 'enlightenment', we need to be fired up to walk alongside the true path in light. Aristoteles is called 'walkers' because the see with their inner eye and walk (can) in darkness, with their brain/mind. Mullah Sadra is renowned for having combined these approaches, and some claims with some proofs Einstein stole from him.

I'd equate Aristoteles with stoicism. And Platon with Epicur him where both were logical.

Like I used to seek honor/pain. And still do. Weakly. Because with pain comes the walkers. Giving out of nothing. Do you believe whitewalkers are evil? Then you are attaches. The one thing Buddha told you not to do.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I know that because I've looked at the letters of Epicurus we still possess and how his philosophy influenced modern democratic ideals. Jefferson for example was an Epicurean. It is a known fact of history that Epicurus was a vegetarian and because he believed pleasure was the standard for knowing the good: he believed it was good that sentient animals be in a pleasant state, free from being used by humans.

I studied Greek philosophy pretty in-depth before I became a Buddhist, but chose that because it is pretty well my disposition. I have high empathy and live to stop suffering to the degree I can. I once considered Epicureanism as a viable option.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I think you'd find, regarding Stoicism, that Aristotle has very little in common with it. Aristotle was a pessimist regarding human nature. The Stoics were idealists because they were Pantheists. They were founded by Zeno of Citium, a contemporary of Epicurus. The Christian Neo-Platonists later accused Stoics and Epicureans of renting the mantle of Plato in half because both schools did later on in their Roman epochs- pass themselves off as being in Plato's spirit.

Since you mentioned Buddhism, and this isn't bringing any Buddhist bias into it by the way: Stoicism and Theravada Buddhism are almost identical as far as I can fathom. Stoic Apathia is Nirvana as the Theravadans approach it, which they believe is a cooling and eventual snuffing out.

 

[Lunarious]

Allright. Based on your word. Do you get something back out of reducing suffering?

 

[Lunarious]

I think you'd find, regarding Stoicism, that Aristotle has very little in common with it. Aristotle was a pessimist regarding human nature. The Stoics were idealists because they were Pantheists. They were founded by Zeno of Citium, a contemporary of Epicurus. The Christian Neo-Platonists later accused Stoics and Epicureans of renting the mantle of Plato in half because both schools did later on in their Roman epochs- pass themselves off as being in Plato's spirit.

There's alot of nonsense and many words because everyone wants to be heard and wants to talk. Because they want to walk by light, they may and probabely do distort the truth. The truth however is not dependent on light, as i see, and Allah says: Doyou worship he who can't cause you harm or benefit you?

I'd like links to your information. If you can. Do you want?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Allright. Based on your word. Do you get something back out of reducing suffering?

I believe the universe as a connected whole with karma and all that benefits by my reducing suffering.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Sure. I'll start here. This is a link in which a Catholic priest gives the historical Christian view of Aristotle, that he grasped something like original sin within humans and would have approved the doctrine: Fr. James Schall: Original Sin

There's a reason Christians love Aristotle.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

What is it about Epicureanism and Stoicism you'd like discuss @Lunarious? I am interested in doing so

 

[Lunarious]

I believe the universe as a connected whole with karma and all that benefits by my reducing suffering.

What is your proof? If you consentrate on yourself before the others you are ahinayanapractitioner. If you consentrate on others first, you are mahayana (big boat, and possibly Bodhisattva.

 

[Lunarious]

There's alot of nonsense and many words because everyone wants to be heard and wants to talk. Because they want to walk by light, they may and probabely do distort the truth. The truth however is not dependent on light, as i see, and Allah says: Doyou worship he who can't cause you harm or benefit you?

I'd like links to your information. If you can. Do you want?

I stoppedreading here. While i think his intentions are pure.

"What is different about Catholicism is that it provides a basis for thinking about this original sin. Aristotle, in the Politics, wrote: "For to be under constraint and unable to do everything one might resolve to do is advantageous. The license to do whatever one wishes cannot defend against the mean element in every human being." Aristotle suspected that things would go wrong when we have "a license to do what we wish." This license that we claim for ourselves, when exercised, makes things ever more chaotic."

We are humans, and basically Angels (Devas). Humans has a potential that increases with humiliation/humility/humbleness. Therefore pain is neccesary. Not random pain. But constructive pain. I see the need for inherited sin. But is it true? The truth is not light/warmth or Westerners (Sun) or cold Asians (Moon).

Asians are internally cold externally warm. Westerners are internally warm externally cold. Both approaches are needed now, but not later. We need to become internally cold and externally warm. Men. Coldness i don't mean destructiveness, but constructive pain. I know we seek pleasure. But we need to surrender to Allah and leave our fate (stoic) to him. As concentration point. Not middlepoint. Roughly speaking. Depending yet not depending on others external warmness to warm us in our seeking honor/pain. Being a tough social creature. Not just social. Not just tough. Separation is pain. And being together in ignorance is bad.

Its a big scheme. Can't talk about it briefly. Do i make sense?

 

[Lunarious]

What is it about Epicureanism and Stoicism you'd like discuss @Lunarious? I am interested in doing so

I want to prove to the hospital as agreed above on, i'm stoic, mental and internal or introverted intuitive. I struggel with adapting to epicureanism. And because i do that, they say i don't have insight in my severe mental illness. They have fever! If you combine base with acid you get water and salt (fear). And that's whats happening. Everone are afraid and hanging to their sandcastles in a eat or be eaten world. Most are eaten.

 

[Lunarious]

Everything OK?