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Prabhupada's unconventional views

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
I have some respect for vishisth-advaita philosophy,but recent preachers like Prabhupada have become highly-unethical while espousing their philosophy.

Some posts to bring home this argument:

1.ISKCON and Charles Darwin
He has killed the whole civilization, rascal. The more we kick on Darwin's face, the more advanced in spiritual consciousness.
On Darwin

2.ISKCON and Moon Landing
Prabupada said many times that the Moon is further away than Sun in the linear sense, using that as his argument that lunar mission was a hoax. That is a fact.

Even with a naked eye one can see (by observing the shadow pattern on the Moonwhen Sun and Moon are visible together) that this is not the case, let alone using any other calculation method known even to the ancient astronomers.On Moon Landing

3.Prabhupada on Hitler

Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man.
On Hitler

4.Double Dealing with Non-Vaishnavas

Resorting to personal attacks as a way to market philosophy.
On Aurobindo
One French girl entrapped him. That woman spoiled him. He was actually practicing yoga very nice. After his release from political entanglement, actually he became a yogi, but this Frenchwoman, who became later on "Mother," she spoiled her ca..., his career. He became a bhogi then. (laughter) Instead of yogi... Otherwise, he was becoming yogi. You'll find from his photo. In the beginning, he was very lean and thin, and later on, when he died, he was very fatty. Means bhogi. [break] ...yogi bhogi, rogi. There are three.

On Aurobindo


5.Nehru re-Born as Dog in Sweden

She had to pay for the crime with her life and eventually, as we have all seen, our gods saw to it that the dynasty was totally destroyed for the sins of Nehru, now a dog in Sweden! -
On nehru as a dog in Sweden

6.On Woman
Our Vedic civilization says, nari-rupam pati-vratam: ”The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband.” Obviously the modern social system where a woman spends most of her day at a work associating with men other than her own husband is extremely flawed.

On Woman

I cannot understand how this guy has become so popular.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
What exactly is the point of this thread? Most Hindus, and anyone who has looked into ISKCON much at all already is aware of this kind of stuff. Do you have an audience in mind, or are you just hoping to lure joiners in ISKCON bashing, or an ISKCONIte to argue with?

Most of us look at the good with the bad.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
What exactly is the point of this thread? Most Hindus, and anyone who has looked into ISKCON much at all already is aware of this kind of stuff. Do you have an audience in mind, or are you just hoping to lure joiners in ISKCON bashing, or an ISKCONIte to argue with?

Most of us look at the good with the bad.
Luring Joiners in ISKCON bashing.:drool:

Nah,Just spreading awareness that's all.:p
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
But, one thing is for sure: Iskcon under Praphupada was much better than how it is now. Stuff hit the fan after his death.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
मैत्रावरुणिः;3485095 said:
But, one thing is for sure: Iskcon under Praphupada was much better than how it is now. Stuff hit the fan after his death.

I am not sure about this.Recently,I met with Sri Radhanath Swami.He is quite good and his teachings was much more ethical.I guess there are different kinds of members in ISKCON:)
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Luring Joiners in ISKCON bashing.:drool:

Nah,Just spreading awareness that's all.:p

These days ISKCON is shrinking in the US, (the temples are generally attended by non-ISKCON Vaishnavites from the Indan community now) but has steady growth in Russian and the Eastern Bloc. Indeed it has changed a lot. I'm not very up on it. Most people stayed pretty clear after all of the controversy.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
These days ISKCON is shrinking in the US, (the temples are generally attended by non-ISKCON Vaishnavites from the Indan community now) but has steady growth in Russian and the Eastern Bloc. Indeed it has changed a lot. I'm not very up on it. Most people stayed pretty clear after all of the controversy.

True,but I have seen many of their members espousing some of these radical political and social views.Such views don't help in attracting new members.:)
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |

Andal

resident hypnotist
Vannakkam,

Most of us here are well aware of the controversies found in Iskcon, the least of which were Prabhupada's comments. We Vaishnavas in the West have a debt of gratitude to him however that does not mean agreeing with his statements or some of the directions Iskcon has gone in. With the exception of people like Sri Radhanath Swami, Iskcon was better under Prabhupada. There is no excuse for the things that happened after his passing.

Regardless of those things Prabhupada has an important place in the western expansion of Hinduism. I have a great deal of admiration for what he did in his elderly age.

I have some respect for vishisth-advaita philosophy,but recent preachers like Prabhupada have become highly-unethical while espousing their philosophy.
Iskcon is not Vishishtadvaita. Their lineage starts with Madhva (Dvaita) and became Achintya-bhedbheda through the teachings of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Vishishtadvaita is the in the lineage of Sri Ramanujacharya and the Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya.

Aum Hari Aum!
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Vannakkam,
I have a great deal of admiration for what he did in his elderly age.
Hi Andal,

But,I think there is a limit to preaching 'highly-unethical' teachings such as abusing with words like Rascal and fools on those who differed from the Vaishnava Sects.Philosophy is considered a way of life and those philosophers who just throw personal attacks on other philosophers are just hypocrites and it does not matter how big an organization they create.This is especially true here as we are talking of a philosophy which aims to spread love for an all-encompassing god like Krishna.

This is true not just for Prabhupada,but many other Gurus in other traditions.


Iskcon is not Vishishtadvaita. Their lineage starts with Madhva (Dvaita) and became Achintya-bhedbheda through the teachings of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Vishishtadvaita is the in the lineage of Sri Ramanujacharya and the Sri Vaishnava Sampradaya.

Aum Hari Aum!
True.
 
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Andal

resident hypnotist
But,I think there is a limit to preaching 'highly-unethical' teachings such as abusing with words like Rascal and fools on those who differed from the Vaishnava Sects.Philosophy is considered a way of life and those philosophers who just throw personal attacks on other philosophers are just hypocrites and it does not matter how big an organization they create.This is especially true here as we are talking of a philosophy which aims to spread love for an all-encompassing god like Krishna.

This is true not just for Prabhupada,but many other Gurus in other traditions.

Vannakkam,

Quite honestly this is all old news. I don't have to respect his points of view philosophically. I do respect that at such an elderly age he got on a ship and showed up in a new country at the request of his guru. He then spread the Bhagavad Gita to as many people as possible. That is a lot more than what most Hindus in the west did in that era. His views were the result of his era and background. I don't defend his philosophical point of view as I am not a Gaudiya or Iskcon memeber. However I respect what he has accomplished. And I recognize that Sanatana Dharma may not be today as accessible to westerners if it were not for him.

Aum Hari Aum
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Vannakkam,

Quite honestly this is all old news. I don't have to respect his points of view philosophically. I do respect that at such an elderly age he got on a ship and showed up in a new country at the request of his guru. He then spread the Bhagavad Gita to as many people as possible. That is a lot more than what most Hindus in the west did in that era. His views were the result of his era and background. I don't defend his philosophical point of view as I am not a Gaudiya or Iskcon memeber. However I respect what he has accomplished. And I recognize that Sanatana Dharma may not be today as accessible to westerners if it were not for him.

Aum Hari Aum
Yup..this is quite old.:)
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
I don't know anything about prabupada, other than few things he said about in the fora. And most importantly I don't have his bravery of having spread Hinduism in a foreign land. But, I make it a habit to voice my small opinions if I find someone is saying something that sounds downright incorrect to me. And in that vein, I do not like Prabhupada's comments about Hitler and women. I do not know why men of his calibre have to say these statements at all...
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Personally, I think Prabhupada came at the right time. It was the 60s, the drug culture, and the Vietnam war. Much was going on then. People were searching for a new alternative way to think, and He provided it. It may not have been the most ideal version of Hinduism to come along, but the fruits were ripe for the picking.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste

I don't have time this morning to go over all the items listed here, not sure if I'm going to bother. But I was curious to note a couple which I would comment on.

NEHRU REBORN AS DOG IN SWEDEN

The link pruvided says Prabhupad in N.Y. said this, that it was just a few weeks after Nehru's death.

Nehru died on 27 May 1964.

Prabhupad didn't even arrive in America (he came by ship via chariiy with only a few rupees in his pocket) until September 17th, 1965.

His arrival in the US wasn't even until a year and a half later after the Nehru death, nor did he get established in his own "center" with audience to his lectures until a period of time after initial struggles. The time frame of this rememberence and the setting of the circumstances placed within just after Nehru's death and while Nehru was still being mourned is completely wrong.

Prabhupad was one of the most funny of the early Gurus who arrived in America. He could draw huge laughter from his audiences, especially in the early days when many of the audience were young people, he knew how to get their attention.

I have no doubt he probably did say Nehru was born "as a dog", he was famous for saying politicians will be reborn as dogs. Politicians were even less favorable in the eyes of many back then, compared to today, but even today are so.

I didn't read the details of the Hitler thing, I don't recall Prabhupad being a Hitler devotee actually, considering how much politicians were loathed at the time and how many have died at their hands because of incompetence, divide and rule, failure on promises and hate, pretty much one is "not as bad" as the other.

I recall after one of my very early visits to an ISKCON temple, the devotee who was sort of in charge took down my phone number. There were only rotary phones those days, no push buttons nor cellular.

He calls the phone, which was to my home and my mother answered. They had a nice little conversation, since I wasn't at home actually at the time because I went to some stupid political event of a politician.

The devotee rips into how all politicians "will be reborn as dogs", and are "like Hitler".

Hmmm... my Mother relays the info to me, I later talk with this devotee who again used the Hitler analogy regarding politicians.

The "Nehru Jacket" was becoming very popular in the late 1960's. There used to be a joke when someone was seen in the local coffee shop wearing the jacket "Nehru's been reborn in America!". Usually the guy saying it would be wearing a cowboy hat or one of those belts with the huge belt buckle (not making fun, just observing). "Hey, looks like Nehru's been reborn as a 100 Nehru's all over the 'fruity' plains! With all them Nehrus, wonder if America's gonn'a be partitioned like India!" ... jokes and put downs like that.

I have no idea where the "Sweden" thing came from, other than that Holland (Amsterdam) and Sweden were both associated with sex and easy women in those days, and so was Nehru.

I wish I had heard the lecture about Nehru being reborn as a dog, it would have been hilarious. Lot's of folks got it coming (rebirth as a dog). I recall an astrologer in the 60s saying so and so was "reborn as a dog", "Hitler reborn as a Jew" and things like that. The guy was from India, trying to get a name for himself.

LANDING ON THE MOON

I remember taking a picture with a camera (was it a Polaroid?) of the black and white television screen the moment the US landed and stepped onto the moon. Despite the screen glare, the picture came out good.

Yes, I recall some devotees talking about some documentary or something about the moon landing being filmed in a movie studio.

Prabhupad probably did say something about the event that in retrospect is oddly "old fashioned" and off the wall.

I really don't care, however. Saying some off the wall thing in that time and that place is not what I would call a "Guru violation", trangression or scandal, like some other Gurus who molest little girls or boys for example. There is no comparison. Prabhupad never did any such transgression. Saying something you consider goofy isn't on the level of transgressions of others. There were devotee who as leadership or just membership did horrible transgressions. Others were saints of our time.

When the "landing on the moon" flap was happening, I recall asking the top pujari of an ISKCON temple about it. He just told me, "don't worry about it, hopefully devotees of Krishna will setup the first temple on the moon planet in the future"...

In other words, just move on.

Just ignore it. Time will tell. Prabhupad didn't go to bed with a Bollywood star, I don't see what this fixation some have on this stuff has to do with the bigger picture. I am not ISKCON, but I think some of these fixations are just as goofy as some things a Guru may have said or missaid or misheard.

If he is unconventional, man, I bet some folks consider me fit to be tied. I mean, who isn't controversial? My barber is controversial. Unconventional?

I got to go to work. May check in at lunch time.

Om Namah Sivaya
 
Prabhupāda as a person is hardly important: he was a carrier, he carried along with himself something far greater: Hindu Dharma.

Infact he was, in many ways, not more than an average, regular, Hindu, or a regular "grandpa" next door. Now, we all love such grandpa's, their idiosyncrasies actually add, rather than subtract on it.

I have a feeling that all grandpa's admire Hitler, and see the in-fashion achievements of modernity with great scepticism, suspicion.

He was dead right in his conviction: that the West was ripe for Krishna.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Prabhupāda as a person is hardly important: he was a carrier, he carried along with himself something far greater: Hindu Dharma.He was dead right in his conviction: that the West was ripe for Krishna.
IMO,Dharma is not a thing to be sold.This is where modern gurus have got it all wrong.It is not that the east is Dharmic and the West is adharmic. There are western philosophies which can be considered Dharmic.

Infact he was, in many ways, not more than an average, regular, Hindu, or a regular "grandpa" next door. Now, we all love such grandpa's, their idiosyncrasies actually add, rather than subtract on it.
I have a feeling that all grandpa's admire Hitler, and see the in-fashion achievements of modernity with great scepticism, suspicion.
True Grandpa indead.:D
 
IMO,Dharma is not a thing to be sold.This is where modern gurus have got it all wrong.It is not that the east is Dharmic and the West is adharmic. There are western philosophies which can be considered Dharmic.
Actually I can't figure out personally, what was the need of these various Hindu Gurus to go there and create awareness about Hindu ways. I mean, really, what was their motivation? It is perplexing!

For native Hindus such as me, someone like Sri RāmSharmā āchārya ("Gāyatri Family") in recent times- is much, much bigger and important.
 

Metempsychosis

Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Actually I can't figure out personally, what was the need of these various Hindu Gurus to go there and create awareness about Hindu ways. I mean, really, what was their motivation? It is perplexing!

For native Hindus such as me, someone like Sri RāmSharmā āchārya ("Gāyatri Family") in recent times- is much, much bigger and important.
I am not sure too,just religious preaching and deploying the troops (Gurus) in the West.:D
 
I am not sure too,just religious preaching and deploying the troops (Gurus) in the West.:D
Metaphorically we may, perhaps, see this as a way civilisations interact with each other. So in this sense, West comes to be associated with its "export", that is Materialism.

So yes "export" is a bit off, but I don't mean it in a way products are sold, rather as the kind of influence exerted by one on the other.

Some are known to "export" terrorism, for example, and at least it is good to know that whatever India "exports" - certainly terror is not among them!

p.s.: but within India, without a doubt, Dayānanda Saraswati, SriRāmSharmā, etc have left a better imprint.
 
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