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Power of Fake News

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fake news and untruthfulness has now become a plague on the progress of the human race.

The power of the written and spoken word by those that are supposedly to report the truth, is well known. It is used for good and is used to deceive.

The Baha'i Writings contain advice I would like to share.

Baha'u'llah offered

"The pages of swiftly-appearing newspapers are indeed the mirror of the world. They reflect the deeds and the pursuits of divers peoples and kindreds. They both reflect them and make them known. They are a mirror endowed with hearing, sight and speech. This is an amazing and potent phenomenon. However, it behoveth the writers thereof to be purged from the promptings of evil passions and desires and to be attired with the raiment of justice and equity. They should enquire into situations as much as possible and ascertain the facts, then set them down in writing." – Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, pp. 39-40.

There is more offered by Baha'u'llah about reporting the Truth, Abdul'baha gave many talks about this topic and quotes Baha'u'llah.

"O ye editors of the world: – It behooves ye to be free from prejudice and adorned with equity and justice in order to mirror forth the facts. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Abdu’l-Baha in Divine Philosophy, p. 185.

"The pages of swiftly appearing newspapers are indeed the mirror of the world; they display the doings and actions of the different nations; they both illustrate them and cause them to be heard. Newspapers are as a mirror which is endowed with hearing, sight and speech; they are a wonderful phenomenon and a great matter. But it behoveth the editors of the newspaper to be sanctified from the prejudice of egotism and desire, and to be adorned with the ornament of equity and justice.

There are good and bad newspapers. Those which strive to speak only that which is truth, which hold the mirror up to truth, are like the sun: they light the world everywhere with truth and their work is imperishable. Those who play for their own little selfish ends give no true light to the world and perish of their own futility." – Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 2, p. 3.

What do you think about this trend toward deceit?

I say bring back the desire to be truthful.

Regards Tony
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I used to take YouTube thumb nails and articles on Google at face value. Now I am second guessing everything, and keep a mindful eye when looking into things. If there is something that is meant to smear deceit and lies about someone, I often now apply the benefit of the doubt to situations. I don't care if it's about either Trump or Biden either, while I feel like Trump is a egomaniac, and Biden is too senile to do the job, I still consider both presidents to be good people nonetheless.

The Baha'i Faith not only forbids Baha'is to partake in partisan politics, which prevents them from joining a political party, but they can't gossip or backbite either. I don't mind gossiping myself if what I'm saying is true in my own point of view. And I've joined so many third parties that if the Baha'i Faith knew about I would have some serious issues, but besides for voting, typically for Republicans, I don't get involved in party politics. I joined College Republicans in one of my colleges, UW-Parkside, and I know the Baha'i Faith wouldn't have liked that, but religions can't control their members like puppets and if I want to get politically involved I have to choose one side or the other.

While I'm still a member of the Unitarian Universalist association and Baha'i Faith, mostly because I don't want to burn anymore bridges, I am a fully lapsed member of both. I don't pray everyday like Baha'is are supposed to, and I haven't visited a UU congregation in several years. I get the overall feeling that most UUs don't like me for having mostly conservative views on politics, and Baha'is tend to be Democratic as well, despite having some seriously right-wing views on social issues. I am a member of Earthseed not because I formally joined the organization but since at least half of my posts advocate for its positions. Members of Earthseed tend to pretty liberal too.

When I moved away from Milwaukee I lost a lot of contacts, from people in my apartment building, to my local UU congregation, but I've gained things as well during that time. And to wrap it up, I would like to point out that almost every organization, whether it be UU, Baha'i, Republican or Democrat, has some sort of agenda. The Baha'i Faith itself cannot be taken in face value, as I've seen and witnessed the Baha'i Faith twisting the words around towards other religions, claiming that all religions are monotheistic when they aren't. These blatant lies have made me trust the Baha'i Faith less. And when I learned and studied the Ruhi books, it looks to me to be pure indoctrination.

If you are going to keep a skeptical eye on political figures, you must keep a watchful eye on religious figures too. All organizations have an agenda, especially the Baha'is.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
New I used to take YouTube thumb nails and articles on Google at face value. Now I am second guessing everything, and keep a mindful eye when looking into things. If there is something that is meant to smear deceit and lies about someone,

That is a wise move. We should always keep a mindful eye out for deception and fake news.

I see that personal opinions do not necessarily portray the truth.

Regards Tony
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
That is a wise move. We should always keep a mindful eye out for deception and fake news.

I see that personal opinions do not necessarily portray the truth.

Regards Tony

Thank you, but I hope you read the entire message and not just the snippet you decided to quote.

I see Baha'is on this forum looking to proselytize their viewpoints to others on here. Despite their religion forbidding it. The Ruhi Institute is a Baha'i indoctrination organization. And far too often do I see Baha'is trying to say that Buddhism, a nontheistic religion, is actually monotheistic, telling me that the idea of Nirvana is God when Nirvana is not a being but a place. As well, Baha'is also lie and say that Hinduism is monotheistic when most Hindus are not monotheistic. A few are, perhaps, but most Hindus are polytheistic or henotheistic, some having thousands of Gods to study from.

My point is, everybody has an agenda. People are marvelous things when getting to meet someone for the first time. But the organizations and institutions they involve themselves in always as an agenda, whether it be political or religious. I hope you can recognize your own bias for what it is. I know myself that I have a bias towards extropy and cosmism, looking towards the future and how we as a species can visit other planets someday. Since I recognize this bias within myself I try not to accentuate those qualities about myself in fear of alienating others.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Fake news and untruthfulness has now become a plague on the progress of the human race.

The power of the written and spoken word by those that are supposedly to report the truth, is well known. It is used for good and is used to deceive.

The Baha'i Writings contain advice I would like to share.

Baha'u'llah offered

"The pages of swiftly-appearing newspapers are indeed the mirror of the world. They reflect the deeds and the pursuits of divers peoples and kindreds. They both reflect them and make them known. They are a mirror endowed with hearing, sight and speech. This is an amazing and potent phenomenon. However, it behoveth the writers thereof to be purged from the promptings of evil passions and desires and to be attired with the raiment of justice and equity. They should enquire into situations as much as possible and ascertain the facts, then set them down in writing." – Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, pp. 39-40.

There is more offered by Baha'u'llah about reporting the Truth, Abdul'baha gave many talks about this topic and quotes Baha'u'llah.

"O ye editors of the world: – It behooves ye to be free from prejudice and adorned with equity and justice in order to mirror forth the facts. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Abdu’l-Baha in Divine Philosophy, p. 185.

"The pages of swiftly appearing newspapers are indeed the mirror of the world; they display the doings and actions of the different nations; they both illustrate them and cause them to be heard. Newspapers are as a mirror which is endowed with hearing, sight and speech; they are a wonderful phenomenon and a great matter. But it behoveth the editors of the newspaper to be sanctified from the prejudice of egotism and desire, and to be adorned with the ornament of equity and justice.

There are good and bad newspapers. Those which strive to speak only that which is truth, which hold the mirror up to truth, are like the sun: they light the world everywhere with truth and their work is imperishable. Those who play for their own little selfish ends give no true light to the world and perish of their own futility." – Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 2, p. 3.

What do you think about this trend toward deceit?

I say bring back the desire to be truthful.

Regards Tony
This does not seem particularly insightful. I think most of us had worked it out for ourselves.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thank you, but I hope you read the entire message and not just the snippet you decided to quote.

I see Baha'is on this forum looking to proselytize their viewpoints to others on here. their religion forbidding it. The Ruhi Institute is a Baha'i indoctrination organization. And far too often do I see Baha'is trying to say that Buddhism, a nontheistic religion, is actually monotheistic, telling me that the idea of Nirvana is God when Nirvana is not a being but a place. As well, Baha'is also lie and say that Hinduism is monotheistic when most Hindus are not monotheistic. A few are, perhaps, but most Hindus are polytheistic or henotheistic, some having thousands of Gods to study from.

My point is, everybody has an agenda. People are marvelous things when getting to meet someone for the first time. But the organizations and institutions they involve themselves in always as an agenda, whether it be political or religious. I hope you can recognize your own bias for what it is. I know myself that I have a bias towards extropy and cosmism, looking towards the future and how we as a species can visit other planets someday. Since I recognize this bias within myself I try not to accentuate those qualities about myself in fear of alienating others.

I see everyone gets to search the truth in these matters. It is only logical all God given Faiths will have many goals, one may call them agendas.

I see all Faiths would embrace this goal / agenda.

"..THE Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure..."

Do you know what the Baha'i definition of proselytize is? That is an important understanding before one can determine if the line has been crossed. If one was reporting, or writing and article on such a topic, that definition is what would have to be considered.

As to the Rhui courses, it has a purpose and that purpose also wpulf Ned to be understood before one can report fully on how that process unfolded.

Regards Tony
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Interesting.
I was raised Catholic and I particularly love Dante's Divine Comedy.
When Dante meets his ancestor Cacciaguida in Paradise, the latter tells him to always write the truth.
He said: "anyway, after removing all lies, make your vision manifest,
and let those with scabies scratch themselves
".
I was taught to expose the truth. My catechist said that truth is better than covering up information.
I think God wants us to be outspoken and blunt, and to expose what's kept hidden.

Secrecy is not God's. Secrecy is Satan's.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This does not seem particularly insightful. I think most of us had worked it out for ourselves.

Yes, but that advice was given in the 1800's prior to news becoming widespread fake. One may say a forewarning of what would become of news!

Regards Tony
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, but that advice was given in the 1800's prior to news becoming widespread fake.
I dont think it was, I think it was given in response to anti-Bahai polemics being published.

You'll note that Baha'u'llah refers to the pre-existing "pages of swiftly-appearing newspapers", in other words it is written as a response to an existing phenomena, it is not prophetic in the slightest.

In my opinion.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
@TransmutingSoul

In a spirit of good will and comradery, and given the fact that this thread is posted on Interfaith, I will prevent myself from arguing with you. I will agree with you, however, that all religions are essentially looking for the same thing. You'd say that thing is global peace and unity, I would say to that goal that every religion is creating God because of this. I do not know what the Baha'is exactly consider proselytization, but I know what the staff here considers it. Granted, explaining any religion and why it's correct will appear to try to bring converts, but, I also know most Baha'is are above that kind of behavior.

I talk to many non-Baha'is on the Baha'i Discord and the Baha'is never force anything on anyone, and I know you weren't trying to force anything on anyone, except using your doctoral accounts of faith as evidence ... something that could be viewed as attempted proselytization here. Does the UHJ think it is? Well ... I've read about what the UHJ considers proselytization, and they seem to think it's continual unsuccessful persuasion and a sense of negative feelings and actions that occur when the talks go sour. While I did not sense that in the other thread's header, the discourse that happened after it appeared like it was that to me.

If you wish to keep talking to me about this, I suggest you make a thread in Religious Debates or DM me. A thread topic like this could easily go sour given the right people and circumstances, and I don't want to ruin the spirit of discussion led on Interfaith.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
@TransmutingSoul

In a spirit of good will and comradery, and given the fact that this thread is posted on Interfaith, I will prevent myself from arguing with you. I will agree with you, however, that all religions are essentially looking for the same thing. You'd say that thing is global peace and unity, I would say to that goal that every religion is creating God because of this. I do not know what the Baha'is exactly consider proselytization, but I know what the staff here considers it. Granted, explaining any religion and why it's correct will appear to try to bring converts, but, I also know most Baha'is are above that kind of behavior.

I talk to many non-Baha'is on the Baha'i Discord and the Baha'is never force anything on anyone, and I know you weren't trying to force anything on anyone, except using your doctoral accounts of faith as evidence ... something that could be viewed as attempted proselytization here. Does the UHJ think it is? Well ... I've read about what the UHJ considers proselytization, and they seem to think it's continual unsuccessful persuasion and a sense of negative feelings and actions that occur when the talks go sour. While I did not sense that in the other thread's header, the discourse that happened after it appeared like it was that to me.

If you wish to keep talking to me about this, I suggest you make a thread in Religious Debates or DM me. A thread topic like this could easily go sour given the right people and circumstances, and I don't want to ruin the spirit of discussion led on Interfaith.

I would much rather work together and cooperate with you than useless argument and disputation. I’m still wanting to understand Earthseed so it would be good if you could share some insights about it. I think the best way to avoid fake news is to get information from the source instead of third parties. So for example I would get factual information about what Earthseed believes from you not so much a third party.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fake news and untruthfulness has now become a plague on the progress of the human race.

Institutionalized lying to the detriment of mankind is nothing new.

it behoveth the writers thereof to be purged from the promptings of evil passions and desires and to be attired with the raiment of justice and equity. They should enquire into situations as much as possible and ascertain the facts, then set them down in writing."

That didn't help, but how could it? This is what we see from the religions. Be good. Love another. Work together. Be honest. It didn't work 2000 years ago and it still doesn't work now.

What do you think about this trend toward deceit?

More than ever, critical thinking skills are your friend. It's the defense against indoctrination and disinformation. Learn the criteria for belief before believing, and only accept as correct that which it can demonstrated is correct. Fact check, learn the fallacies, and learn what to discern which sources share those values and agenda. The problems befall those that can't, who haven't developed those defenses. They're the ones refusing vaccines and dying needlessly. They're the ones feeling cheated about elections and going to prison tilting at windmills because of it. They're the ones giving money to liars.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I would much rather work together and cooperate with you than useless argument and disputation. I’m still wanting to understand Earthseed so it would be good if you could share some insights about it. I think the best way to avoid fake news is to get information from the source instead of third parties. So for example I would get factual information about what Earthseed believes from you not so much a third party.

To avoid endless repetition, I will refer you to this post that will explain what Earthseed is and what it means to me.
 

idea

Question Everything
One example of the nine-position progression from dualist to relativist epistemologies; from viewing truth in absolute terms of Right and Wrong (obtained from “Good” or “Bad” Authorities) to recognizing multiple, conflicting versions of “truth”:

  1. The authorities know e.g. "the teacher knows what is right and wrong", dualism
  2. The true authorities are right, the others are frauds e.g. "my teacher doesn't know what is right and wrong but others do"
  3. There are some uncertainties and the authorities are working on them to find the truth e.g. "my teacher don't know, but somebody out there is trying to find out"
  4. Everyone has right to their own opinion / The authorities don't want the right answers. They want us to think in a certain way e.g. "different teacher think different things" e.g. "there is an answer that the teacher want and we have to find it"
  5. Everything is relative but not equally valid e.g. "there are no right and wrong answers, it depends on the situation, but some answers might be better than others"
  6. You have to make your own decisions e.g. "what is important is not what the tutor thinks but what I think"
  7. First commitment e.g. "for this particular topic I think that...."
  8. Several Commitments e.g. "for these topics I think that...."
  9. Believe own values, respect others, be ready to learn e.g. "I know what I believe in and what I think is valid, others may think differently and I'm prepared to reconsider my views"
Many never make it up to the highest levels.

News, "his"story has always been filled with partial truths, blind mice describing an elephant. It just takes age, and exposure to multiple viewpoints, to become an honest agnostic :)
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
To avoid endless repetition, I will refer you to this post that will explain what Earthseed is and what it means to me.

Like learning anything completely new it takes time. So I have some very vague idea that Earthseed is about creating God within us? To become godly?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How do you tell what's truthful and what's not?

That even includes fact checkers , surveys, polls, and whatnot.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Like learning anything completely new it takes time. So I have some very vague idea that Earthseed is about creating God within us? To become godly?

Earthseed believes that God is change. Syntheism is the belief that humans will create God someday. My idea is that spreading ourselves the furthest we can, not just on Earth, but on many different planets, we will become more Godlike until a point which we find technology that will allow us to create life on any planet we choose to inhabit. The Omniverse passively created humans so that humans would fulfill our active, lively duty to create as much life and as much happy life throughout all of nature. Humans will have to do it ourselves until we find some way of developing technology to do it for us - that technology will essentially be the Synverse of The Omniverse, and will be able to create multiple spacetimes with new and alternate realities. Once we harness all of the knowledge and engineering of all spacetimes two things will be apparent: there will be a monotheism ushered in as The Omniverse will "turn on" and become active and because of this, each of us will have a role in that space, creating an omnitheistic space of divinity for every creation.

Like, when you die, you will exist as a wave of energy that can one can be transferred back into particles that can harness that power. In many ways, I believe it is possible to choose whatever afterlife you want for yourself right now by writing it into your will. I even asked the service company Epic Will if I could use their service primarily for that reason alone and got no response, unfortunately. Many religions believe in a resurrection, but by the time that happens I want a completely new body to live in. I have written my own Will of Conscious on my website but it's time we start taking the future seriously and do something about this before we die.

The biggest difference between myself and other religions, is, that from talking to others, I have found out that they believe we already exist in the era which The Omniverse is essentially turned on, and if that was the case, it's doing a fantastic job at hiding that fact, mostly. Turning on The Omniverse isn't going to be like light switch, it will be a process and that slow, thorough and very gradual, but at the end of the finite existence we have we will accelerate into a post-moral society, which each and every action can be reversed and changed in some way, and the post-humans will, in essence, be able to shape any reality they want, and exist exactly the way they imagine themselves to be. We are already taking small steps into this, such as, transsexual people now, but it will go much further than that, and each choice you make can be reversible. One day you could take up the conscious of a bird, the next day you could be fish and the next you could resume your normal life as a human.

People really have no idea how far this could go, how deep our engineering and technology could be, creating new realities and bringing our extropy on the same level of entropy and ending all suffering, diseases and disorders one day, and it won't just for be certain people because the rich need to profit off of this too, and the best way they can is offering technology like this to the rest of society. I don't know exactly where my life will end when I get rid of this body, but I know that unless something major happens my next body might as well be my last, aka, you only live twice.

So, I get excited when I think about the future. Humanity is growing up and the changes we bring forth is creating the divinity within God. Unfortunately what I'm afraid of is when our society turns solely towards secularism and forgets this basic fact. Anything and everything can raise or lower its divinity based on the actions it does while it has a conscious, while there is some amount of free will involved. Evolution in many ways is about finding the ways which things can have the most free will, as our intelligence has proved to me that fact. The end isn't a heat death, it isn't Christ's return, it is a near-infinite amount of spacetime in The Omniverse, and near-infinite amounts of both entropy and extropy. The end of the finite world will usher in a new almost-infinite reality. It's almost already happening digitally in games such as No Man's Sky, which if they build off enough could in return be the greatest game of all time, someday.

Why people choose to turn away this progress we have made for ourselves I don't know, but what I do know is that the future is going to be much better than we could possibly imagined for ourselves currently. Each and every generation builds from the last one. Two steps forward, one step back. Sometimes the most miraculous discoveries are made when you take that one step back, too. Don't forget that.

I could go on and on about the changes I'm starting to see in us as a species but I think you're starting to get the picture. Our role currently is to be the dominion of our planet, Earth, but we are just the seeds of something much larger, and better, than we could possibly imagine for ourselves someday. It is positivism taken to the logical extreme if one can wait a few thousand years before we develop the technology - the utility - of doing so.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I dont think it was, I think it was given in response to anti-Bahai polemics being published.

You'll note that Baha'u'llah refers to the pre-existing "pages of swiftly-appearing newspapers", in other words it is written as a response to an existing phenomena, it is not prophetic in the slightest.

In my opinion.

One can see it in that light, for sure.

From a Baha faith perspective, that was advice for that time, the present and the future. Other writings offer that the advice given is suited for an entire age, the age in this case, is at least 1000 years.

Regards Tony
 
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