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"Post-truth is pre-fascism"
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
Sometime ago I noticed that how, after you have begun thinking about it, the idea you can have a free and open democracy without a more or less shared understanding of what makes something true (and what makes something false) just gets weirder and weirder to contemplate.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
And served in the Air Force. Very nice
Meh, back to the issue: "Post-truth is pre-fascism". Do you feel you understand what that means? If so, do you think it's a true statement?
About a dozen years ago, I got into a back and forth email exchange with that guy. I don't recall now much about it, other than he took one side, I took the other. But he did impressed me in one way. He left me with a lasting impression that he had put in the work to make sure he understood my point of view before responding to it. How often does that happen?
It appears you sir have found a unicorn! Cherish it
Friend of Mara
Active Member
Any suspension of logical thought can be abused. A propagated attack on logical thought is only ever done so that it can be taken advantage of.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That says a lot.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Aside from Trump being a 'post truth' president?
Its called predicting what one side of the isle can do, while remaining whooly ignorant and dismissive of what the other is obviously capable of using the same template.
It does? My uncle is a retired US Air Force officer. I mean all it tells me is the guy is probably highly disciplined and well travelled
Forgive me, I’m an outsider
It's curious how so many people nowadays seem able to convince themselves, "Truth is relative", and similar sorts of things.
Me, I grew up in a small town. People incessantly talk about each other. They routinely pass along detailed information about each other that outsiders think is both hilarious and incomprehensible anyone could be interested in hearing it. Yet, most of it is reliable. Not exactly true, but close enough to be remarkable for how true it is. Know why it's so accurate?
Just get yourself a reputation in a small town for being a habitual liar. See how many doors close to you, and stay closed. (If you want to dive into it deeper than that, try imagining how fast a small community would be torn apart if everyone started telling lies about everyone else. Now go one step further and imagine how ruthlessly lying is necessarily discouraged in such a community.)
But here's the real point: Almost no one has any problem telling truth from falsehood in ordinary, business as usual circumstances. Folks in my home town are as confused and mislead as anyone these days by the 'confusion' in the media outlets and platforms. But in terms of the day to day news of each other that they pass along, they know what truth is and what it isn't. The distinction is clear to them.
I've been wondering for years how much today's 'uncertainty' about what's true isn't in some sense a result of there being so few negative and lasting consequences for convincing yourself there is no universal standard for truth.
Me, I grew up in a small town. People incessantly talk about each other. They routinely pass along detailed information about each other that outsiders think is both hilarious and incomprehensible anyone could be interested in hearing it. Yet, most of it is reliable. Not exactly true, but close enough to be remarkable for how true it is. Know why it's so accurate?
Just get yourself a reputation in a small town for being a habitual liar. See how many doors close to you, and stay closed. (If you want to dive into it deeper than that, try imagining how fast a small community would be torn apart if everyone started telling lies about everyone else. Now go one step further and imagine how ruthlessly lying is necessarily discouraged in such a community.)
But here's the real point: Almost no one has any problem telling truth from falsehood in ordinary, business as usual circumstances. Folks in my home town are as confused and mislead as anyone these days by the 'confusion' in the media outlets and platforms. But in terms of the day to day news of each other that they pass along, they know what truth is and what it isn't. The distinction is clear to them.
I've been wondering for years how much today's 'uncertainty' about what's true isn't in some sense a result of there being so few negative and lasting consequences for convincing yourself there is no universal standard for truth.
Sorry, we're not even using the same book when it comes to understanding what 'post-truth is pre-fascism' means. Thanks though for responding.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I'm having trouble with your belief, especially this:-
Almost no one has any problem telling truth from falsehood in ordinary, business as usual circumstances.
I can only tell you that I found that folks will accept negatives (about other people) much more readily than positives. Let me explain.
My work was all about testing company staff for honesty, or integrity, or accuracy, or security compliance etc..... I was also a retail thief catcher, working as a retail investigator and at times as a store detective. My success rates were so high that I eventually was hired to write training courses, and I made many training films about this work for large national retailers.
Take two lies, thuis:- Tell a group that you are a formula one test-track driver and a % of listeners will suspect that. Tell the same group that you have been in prison for a sales fraud scam and the whole lot will believe you.
To do this work a person needs to be able to become like other people. For instance, if I was working in a very high class retail environment as a store detective I would never dress up to the average standard of appearance of such customers, I would dress down to the lowest level of appearance that would be considered to be 'just acceptable' to be allowed in such stores. High class thieves would quickly accept that I was just 'anybody' and dismiss/ignore my presence. My arrest rates of 'greed' or 'intellectual challenge' or 'anger' driven thefts was very shockingly high.
This basic technique of needing to tell the World that one is less than one really is became what we call a 'Truth Pill'.
There are many ways of delivering a 'Truth Pill' when delivering any kind of falsehood or lie.
This is enough to show that human beings wherever they are cannot naturally discern truth from lies about other people.
"The lies you believe become your chains."
I'm putting that in quotes because I am essentially quoting myself. That is, from my most recent book. The phrase appears in one wording or another in three or four of the book's aphorisms. Just so everyone knows why I've been strutting around so proud of myself ever since reading the article linked to in the OP.
I'm putting that in quotes because I am essentially quoting myself. That is, from my most recent book. The phrase appears in one wording or another in three or four of the book's aphorisms. Just so everyone knows why I've been strutting around so proud of myself ever since reading the article linked to in the OP.
How large and well-knit was the community you lived and worked in?
I see truth and trump in the same sentence and immediately think oxymoron.
Heyo
Veteran Member
That insight is just a rewording of an older, much better known bon mot:
It isn't easy to change peoples convictions or moral compass, someone recently even argued it would be impossible. So, when someone believes it is immoral to kill other people without being attacked, don't try to change the moral belief, change the perception of reality.
1. Those others aren't human, or
2. They are attacking you, you have to defend yourself.
That is how you make someone commit atrocities. By lying about reality.