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Featured Possible issues with any afterlife concept (not reincarnation)

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Mock Turtle, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    1. What happens/happened to all those precursors of humans? Or is it just Homo Sapiens, and those from the last several thousand years (Mesolithic/Neolithic and later then) who are in line for the afterlife - and perhaps only those within the last few thousand years? Do those living earlier not have a chance, or if they do are they segregated away from humans? Communication between different races will no doubt be hard enough without all the problems of having to communicate with those perhaps without a recognisable modern language. All are equipped with Babelfish perhaps? And at what point did God decide to include some into this scheme and others not - if only humans are included? Are all these earlier beings just expendable prototypes?

    2. What happens to all those who have never even had the chance to recognise or adopt the particular religion? Not fair?

    3. If any animals (apart from humans) inhabit an afterlife, do they retain their 'roles' - as herbivores, carnivores, predators, etc. - or are they merely there for background 'atmosphere'. I'm sure many would sooner see their pets alongside them in an afterlife than many other humans. If other animals are included then why not earlier precursors of humans?

    4. Many are just born with certain advantages - hereditary and circumstantial, for example - such that many others hardly have a fair starting point in life, so why would some be allowed into a particular afterlife (Heaven or whatever) when they perhaps haven't earned their place?

    5. What happens to those who died very young? And with no chance to develop into an adult human being with all that this usually entails? Destined to remain so for ever?

    We need answers!
     
  2. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    When you really get down to it , there really isn't any such thing as birth or death.

    When a person dies the atoms just separate and fall apart , and of course we all know atoms rearrange and reassemble over the course of time.

    Personally , I think everybody has been everything and everyone, and will be perpetually so in light we for all practical intents and purposes live in a continuum of rising and falling forms of matter and energy.

    For me it's as simple as one day you're the cat the next day your the mouse.
     
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  3. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    I don't understand why all of these don't apply to reincarnation. Reincarnation is based off of a judgement system too. All of what you wrote applies to reincarnation as well unless, how you reincarnate is just random.
     
  4. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    I wanted to restrict any discussion to the most common afterlife examples - Heaven and such - since, as @Nowhere Man has pointed out, and which we all should know, physically we do just break down and are reused continually, so in essence reincarnation takes place, but not necessarily in the form that many seem to believe happens in any afterlife. Any discussion of reincarnation I think should have a separate thread.
     
  5. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    There is only one way to ascertain a definitive answer and that's probably not a route most of us are ready to pursue.
     
  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    We aren't going to get them.
     
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Assuming an omnipotent God. A being who can remake reality at a whim. Can create you, un-create you, recreate you, make it so you never existed. Change the past, your past to whatever, could change your entire past tomorrow and you'd never know about it.

    They could torture you for a billion years, wipe that reality out and recreate a past of ultimate happiness for you. The billion years of torture would have never existed.

    Such an omnipotent being would be amoral. Our reality is fictional dream stuff. A billion battles of toy soldiers only to be brought back to life for the next battle.

    Look at it this way, you are omnipotent with regard to the reality you create in your head. You can create whatever reality you want. You could create a battle where thousands die. Would any of those lives that were lost in this battle you created have any value or meaning outside of what you gave them in this temporary mental battle which you imagined? Nothing lost, nothing gain other than your own experience you created for yourself.

    Create your own reality, then ask yourself these five questions. The answers will be what ever you want them to be for as long as you want. Of course you could change those answers when ever you want. You are the omnipotent being of your creation.
     
  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    the spirit is willing
    the flesh is weak

    stand from your carcass when the hour is upon you
    and you will behold the answer you seek
     
  9. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think Biblical answer to that is:

    For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
    Romans 2:12-16

    Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. It is possible that person can be counted righteous, even if he has not yet heard of Jesus.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Matt. 25:46
     
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  10. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Understandings from my belief system.

    All living animals and human types have an interpenetrating astral body and will experience an afterlife appropriate to their kind. Generally after an astral/heaven experience an animal joins his group soul. Humans have individual souls and will typically reincarnate for new experiences.

    The afterlife is religiously neutral to the human classifications. The quality of the heart and not the belief system is what is most important.

    three more questions but out of time. I will return.
     
  11. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Addressed as a Christian with a Christian world view...

    It doesn't address the issue. They may have a soul and not a spirit... they may have already been saved as no sin was on the earth... we just don't know. A great subject if one wants to just have a debate for debate sake... but it would all be conjecture.

    As I understand it, everyone is judged fairly by the law that they knew.

    It doesn't address that question... we do know that there are horses so the rest is conjecture

    Gifts are not earned, there isn't a work-release program, it isn't bought... love gives. Every Christmas people rejoice that they were blessed even when they didn't deserve it because love was the reason. Heaven is a gift of love.

     
  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Oops @Mock Turtle I didn’t see the (not reincarnation) part or it got added after I looked. So, I’m out of here, sorry.
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Given this life has not dealt me a very good hand, it is natural that I would want to know more about the afterlife...

    I agree we need answers but unfortunately, religion does not give us many specifics about the afterlife, although I think that the Baha'i Faith has a much clearer picture of what it will be like than any other religion:
    Death and Dying in the Bahá’í Faith

    But the curious sort that I am, I was not satisfied with the lack of details so I went looking for answers, and I found some in these books. These accounts of the afterlife are congruent with what my religion teaches about the afterlife:

    I particularly like the first two books, the third one I am not so sure about because it goes into more detail than I think he could know, although I think the spiritual world could be something like he describes:
    1. Private Dowding
    2. The Afterlife Revealed
    3. Heaven and Hell
     
  14. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    But many seem to be doing so. :oops:
     
  15. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Quite. I don't actually believe in any afterlife, so I was wondering how some who do might perceive such - with some of the problems that might occur having such a belief.
     
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  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Perhaps, but I doubt it will be so. ;)
     
  17. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Where does this come from?
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    No problem. I thought it just might complicate matters if reincarnation was included.
     
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  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Note to moderators, if this is inappropriate for this thread please remove it.

    Don't know about the whole afterlife thing, just one section of it.

    Is Hell Exothermic or Endothermic?
    The following is an actual* question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term:

    "Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Support your answer with a proof."

    Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

    First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So, we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities.

    1) If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

    2) Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

    So which is it ? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Therese Banyan during my Freshman year that "It will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then (2) cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic.

    The student got the only A.

    * To be taken with as much salt as required
     
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  20. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Quite a bit of reading there, and I am rather averse to mediums and those detailing their NDEs (too subject to error), but it is probably only to these (personal experiences) or any 'messengers' that one might look for any evidence. The last item is a bit early for much belief to be placed in it - like most religious texts, imho.
     
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