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Possessing Faith in Jesus great enough to Move Mountains, Yet Jesus burns them in hell as Evildoers.

Discussion in 'Catholic DIR' started by Steven Merten, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

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    Matthew 7:21 The True Disciple.
    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, 'Lord, Lord,' have we not prophesied in your name? have we not exorcized demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well? Then I will declare to them solemnly, I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!"

    1 Corinthians 13:1-13 Excellence of the gift of love.
    Now I will show you the way which surpasses all the others. If I speak with human tongues and angelic as well, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong, a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and, with full knowledge, comprehend all mysteries, if I have faith great enough to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    John 14:15
    If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

    John 15:22
    "If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father."

    1 John 5:3
    For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

    John 5:27
    "The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

    John 12:44
    Jesus proclaimed aloud: "Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who believes in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me."

    John 15:10
    "You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love."

    Matthew 16:27
    The Son of Man will come with his angels. When He does, he will repay each man according to his conduct.
     
    #1 Steven Merten, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  2. Link

    Link Active Member

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    Beautiful verses from God. Thank you.
     
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  3. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    That’s nice.
    From all your quotes, I conclude:
    Love, goodwill, and good works are the key to eternal life with the Lord.

    Faith alone is dead. Because faith comes from goodness.
     
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  4. Link

    Link Active Member

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    True belief and good acts come together, claims of belief and deceiving oneself is a believer and evil actions that's another thing and another trial.
     
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  5. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
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  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Can I ask what translation you are using please?

    The way it translates Matthew 7:21-23 concludes with "Out of my sight, you evildoers!"
    But these people are not just 'evildoers' like criminals, they consider themselves "Christians" (calling Jesus their "Lord" and even performing miracles in his name) but they are breaking God's laws.
    How might they be doing this do you think?

    Also.....
    John 5:27
    "The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

    In the scriptures, "hell" (sheol, hades) was not a place of fire or torment. It was just mankind's common grave. According to 2 Peter 3:9, all have an opportunity to repent before the judgment. The origin of hellfire is not actually Biblical....it is found throughout many non-Christian religions. It was adopted along with belief in an immortal soul by the early church, and also by Judaism from Platonic Greek influence.

    Have you ever done research on this?

    John 5:28-29 reads in other Catholic translations as....
    " Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming
    when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment." (RSVCE)

    "28 Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
    29 And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (Douay)

    Can you see that all of the dead are called from their graves (tombs).....not from the spirit realm. Resurrection is literally a restoration to life in the flesh.

    Can't having a "resurrection of judgment" mean coming back to a judgment period after their resurrection. Since death has occurred, the wages of previous sins have been paid. There is no higher penalty in God's Law than death. No penalty under the Law ever included prolonged suffering or torture.

    Thanks to Christ's sacrifice, those who died in ignorance (living at a time or in a place that did not receive a witness) will get a second chance. Isn't that fair?

     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Just a reminder that this thread is Catholic DIR.
     
  8. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know where you’re going with all this, exactly.
    But the following gives me a clue:

    “Over the past five centuries, the big conflict between Martin Luther and Jesus Christ, has deceived many away from Jesus’ teachings on Eternal Life. “

    I agree that Martin Luther’s “faith alone” teaching has been a disaster for millions and millions of people. Totally contradicts the entire Bible message.
     
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  9. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

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    To Obey God is to Love God
    Jesus will Judge us, Into, or Out of, Heaven, Based on Our Love For God


    It is very important to become Baptized into Jesus’ Faith of Salvation. However, Jesus has made it very clear, Jesus and The Father’s ‘Great Commandments to Love', trumps all other forms of Faith in God. To Obey God is to Love God. Jesus and The Father have made it clear that Jesus will Judge us on Judgement Day, based on how much Faith we have in God, based on our Love for God through Obedience to God’s teachings and Commandments.

    Of the four times scripture presents Jesus with the question, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?", three times Jesus answers obey the commandments and twice he tells us to love. God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, sum up God's Ten Commandments with His ‘Great Commandments’ to Love God with all our hearts, minds, strength and souls, and to ‘Love our neighbors as ourselves’. Jesus teaches us that He will Judge us on our Faith in God based on our Love for Jesus, which to Love Jesus means to Obey Jesus’ teachings and Commandments.

    Deuteronomy 6:1
    "These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life.
    Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.

    Mark 12 The Great Commandment.

    "Which is the first of all the commandments?" Jesus replied, "This is the first:

    'Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!

    Therefore you shall love the Lord your God

    with all your heart,

    with all your soul,

    with all your mind,

    and with all your strength.'

    "This is the second,

    'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'


    Leviticus 19 Various Rules of Conduct.
    The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them:
    Be holy, for I, The LORD, your God, am holy. Revere your mother and father, and keep my sabbaths. I, the LORD, am your God.
    "Do not turn aside to idols, nor make molten gods for yourselves. I, the LORD, am your God...

    ..."You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."

    Luke 10:25
    "Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:

    "You shall love the Lord your God

    with all your heart,

    with all your soul,

    with all your strength,

    and with all your mind;

    and your neighbor as yourself."

    Jesus said, "You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live."

    Luke 18:18
    "Good teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life? "Jesus said to him, "Why call me 'good'? None is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not commit adultery. You shall not kill. You shall not steal. You shall not bear dishonest witness. Honor your father and your mother.'"

    John 14:15
    If you love me, you will keep my commandments.


    1 John 5:3
    For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments.
    Deuteronomy 7:9
    "Understand, then, that the LORD, your God, is God indeed, the faithful
    God who keeps his merciful covenant down to the thousandth generation toward those who love him and keep his commandments, but who repays with destruction the person who hates him; he does not dally with such a one, but makes him personally pay for it. You shall therefore carefully observe the commandments, the statutes and decrees which I enjoin on you today."

    John 15:9
    "As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love.

    Matthew 16:27
    The Son of Man will come with his angels. When He does, he will repay each man according to his conduct.

    John 5:27
    "The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

    Revelation 22:12
    "Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood."
     
    #9 Steven Merten, Jan 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  10. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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  11. Steven Merten

    Steven Merten Member

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    2 Peter 3:14 Preparation for the Coming.
    Consider that our Lord's patience is directed toward salvation. Paul, our beloved brother, wrote you this in the spirit of wisdom that is his, dealing with these matters as he does in all his letters. There are certain passages in them hard to understand. The ignorant and the unstable distort them (just as they do the rest of Scripture) to their own ruin. You are forewarned, beloved brothers. Be on your guard lest you be led astray by the error of the wicked, and forfeit the security you enjoy.

    Many Christians reject Jesus’ teachings on salvation, of, “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments” and Jesus teaching, “Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned”. St. Peter gives us warnings about St. Paul’s letters, “There are certain passages in them hard to understand. The ignorant and the unstable distort them (just as they do the rest of Scripture) to their own ruin.”

    It should be common sense that a Christian should never throw out our Lord Jesus Christ's teachings on what to do to go to heaven, for any reason, but there is deception out there, especially through people distorting St. Paul’s letters. St. Paul eliminates the law of circumcision, Not God’s Law of the Ten Commandments (1 Corinthians 7:19). St. Paul, like Jesus, tells us, “when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. (Romans 2)”

    Stay diligent my fellow Catholics. The ‘false prophets’ are out there and they are causing love for God, through obedience to God, to grow cold.

    Matthew 24:10
    And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
     
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