Porn Exploits People

[Subduction Zone]

Does Porn Really Decrease Rates Of Sexual Assault?


We have all been shocked and sickened in recent months by the reports of rampant sexual harassment and assaults happening in our society. While we admire the courage of victims who have come forward with their stories of inexcusable abuse, we are also reminded of how far we have to go as a society to embrace true gender equality and rid ourselves of the far too prevalent patterns 0f sexual assault in our culture.

At the same time we are starting to have a more candid global discussion of the stark reality of sexual assault, we are also seeing headlines that suggest pornography may actually be helping reduce sexual assault in our communities.

These headlines are pretty eye-catching: “Evidence Mounts: More Porn, Less Sexual Assault”…. “Those Who Claim That Porn Incites Rape Are Mistaken”…. “Individuals May Not Like Porn, But Our Society Loves It, and Benefits From It.” Sound familiar? Well, the problem is, the articles beneath these headlines point to a handful of correlation studies from different parts of the world, all claiming that sexual violence rates decrease as porn becomes more accessible in a society.

So, is this all correct? Is it true that porn can actually reduce sexual assault?

As the argument goes, this evidence suggests that porn actually functions as a societal “safety valve” for otherwise aggressive energy. The theory is that instead of attacking someone, people who might commit sexual crimes can express their violent desires by fantasizing to unlimited amounts of internet porn.

But here’s the truth: the research is much more complex than these headlines suggest. Scientific questions surrounding sexual violations of innocent children, women, and men should not be reduced to simplistic soundbites that ignore the enormous complexities involved, while leading people to premature conclusions. Some of the public conversations about porn and sexual violence are simply failing to see the full picture. In particular, those who cite these kinds of “porn reduces rape” correlation studies usually fail to mention another set of issues crucial to a fully informed conversation—three points we take the time to summarize here:


“This study is not an outlier or an anomaly. A recent review found a full 50 peer-reviewed studies directly link porn use to sexual violence. [6]Specifically, the researchers concluded that an extensive review of the literature supports “the existence of reliable associations between frequent pornography use and sexually aggressive behaviors, particularly for violent pornography and/or for men at high risk for sexual aggression.” Far from reducing sexual violence, pornography use actually feeds a culture that views women as sexual objects and accepts rape; as shown by links to many porn consumers’ increased likelihood of using physical coercion to have sex and of engaging in sexual harassment behaviors.“

continue reading linked article:
Does Porn Really Decrease Rates of Sexual Assault?

More complex, yes. But the evidence still supports the claim that pornography lowers rape rates. Not just once, but again and again and again.

Can you at least admit that those that claim it raises rape rates are liars, since they had to know of these studies themselves?

 

[Subduction Zone]

An empirical investigation of the role of pornography in the verbal and physical abuse of women.
Sommers EK, et al. Violence Vict. 1987.
Show full citation
Abstract
In studies of male aggressiveness and pornography, social psychologists have found evidence to support the theory that consumption of pornography by males increases their aggressiveness and antisocial attitudes toward women.



An empirical investigation of the role of pornography in the verbal and physical abuse of women. - PubMed - NCBI

Now you are doing marginally better. But there is a huge problem with the study. Look at the date of it. 1987. Porn was far less readily available then. It looks as if this may be a failed study. A study this old should have quite a few supporting articles. That it does not tells us that for various reasons it was not well accepted by the experts in the field.

 

[InChrist]

More complex, yes. But the evidence still supports the claim that pornography lowers rape rates. Not just once, but again and again and again.

Can you at least admit that those that claim it raises rape rates are liars, since they had to know of these studies themselves?

I haven’t read or posted anything by anyone which specifically states porn raised rape rates, just people questioning and disputing the claims that porn accessibility reduces rape. So, no I am not going to admit anyone is lying at this point. I have seen and read lots of information concerning in the increase of violence portrayed in pornography and how this link between sex and violence together impacts people’s perception in a negative way. I also think it makes sense to question the accuracy of limited studies and basing conclusions solely upon them.





Sexual Violence Remains Systematically and Significantly Under-Reported
As we touched on earlier, numbers on the prevalence of sexual assault widely depend on the measurement approach. As obvious as it may sound, we only measure what we measure! The FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement (and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes), totaled only 85,593 for 2010. [7] Other measurements have been far higher—and have increased over the years as measures have been improved. For example, after shifting from computer-assisted telephone interviews to interviews by field representatives, The National Crime Victimization Surveyshowed a 25% increase in the reported incidence of rape and sexual assault (rising from 190,600 raped or sexually assaulted in 2005 to 248,300 in 2007). [8]

As sexual violence researcher Christopher Krebs notes, “The NCVS data could be missing a lot”—in particular, the instances in which drugs or alcohol leave women less able to defend themselves. [9] As columnist Emily Bazelon notes, “The national data about rape that gets cited over and over again doesn’t ask a single question about whether a victim was unable to consent because of drugs or alcohol, even though that is a major risk factor.” [10]

Among other things, these new numbers suggest that previous government estimates likely considerably underestimated sexual violence rates in the country, with more accurate counts documenting more, not less, rape and sexual assault. Using even more advanced study methods that look at drug-impaired consent, the most recent National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (2010) associated with the Centers for Disease Control counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug-facilitated). [11]

In summary, depending on how you measure rape and sexual assault – there are huge differences in what you find. From 85,593 rapes and attempted rates (FBI, 2010) to 248,3000 rapes and sexual assaults (NCVS, 2007) to 1.27 million attempted or completed rapes or sexual assaults (NIPSV, 2010).

Despite all these differences, often certain kinds of data are cited that are most favorable to certain positions. As pointed out, “It’s a real cause for alarm that there is such a huge discrepancy between the national survey [with the highest quality data] and the ones that don’t, yet are more often cited.” [12]

This is even truer in other parts of the world – where rape is only rarely reported due to the extreme social stigma cast on those who have been raped, or the fear of being disowned by their families, or subjected to violence, including honor killings. Furthermore, in countries where premarital sex and fornication are against the law, victims of rape can face prosecution under these laws, if there is not sufficient evidence to prove a rape in the court.

However you measure it, these numbers reflect a significant problem. As one researcher summarized, “The numbers in this survey show an alarmingly high rate of sexual violence in this country…This should serve as a wake-up call that more must be done to address the problem in the US.” [13]


Does Porn Really Decrease Rates of Sexual Assault?

 

[InChrist]

Most appear to be like this. It is a mixture of positive and negative effects as most things have:

Perceived Effects of Pornography on the Couple Relationship: Initial Findings of Open-Ended, Participant-Informed, “Bottom-Up” Research

Thanks for the link. I noticed this study states that random heterosexual couples were questioned from online sources like Facebook, Twitter or others like newspapers, etc. asking them about their perceived consequences from viewing pornography and the result was more frequently couples thought the effects were positive, more often than negative. Okay, that was interesting, but not sure how informative or accurate overall. For one thing, most of those couples could likely have already been in stable relationships, unlike situations where women, young girls or boys are controlled by pimps and bought by johns with no freedom to express the harm they experience inspired by porn.

I would think hearing accounts from victims who have escaped sex trafficking situations and the sex industry would present a much more accurate picture.


http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/FarleyRentinganOrgan11-06.pdf

 

[Subduction Zone]

I haven’t read or posted anything by anyone which specifically states porn raised rape rates, just people questioning and disputing the claims that porn accessibility reduces rape. So, no I am not going to admit anyone is lying at this point. I have seen and read lots of information concerning in the increase of violence portrayed in pornography and how this link between sex and violence together impacts people’s perception in a negative way. I also think it makes sense to question the accuracy of limited studies and basing conclusions solely upon them.





Sexual Violence Remains Systematically and Significantly Under-Reported
As we touched on earlier, numbers on the prevalence of sexual assault widely depend on the measurement approach. As obvious as it may sound, we only measure what we measure! The FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement (and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes), totaled only 85,593 for 2010. [7] Other measurements have been far higher—and have increased over the years as measures have been improved. For example, after shifting from computer-assisted telephone interviews to interviews by field representatives, The National Crime Victimization Surveyshowed a 25% increase in the reported incidence of rape and sexual assault (rising from 190,600 raped or sexually assaulted in 2005 to 248,300 in 2007). [8]

As sexual violence researcher Christopher Krebs notes, “The NCVS data could be missing a lot”—in particular, the instances in which drugs or alcohol leave women less able to defend themselves. [9] As columnist Emily Bazelon notes, “The national data about rape that gets cited over and over again doesn’t ask a single question about whether a victim was unable to consent because of drugs or alcohol, even though that is a major risk factor.” [10]

Among other things, these new numbers suggest that previous government estimates likely considerably underestimated sexual violence rates in the country, with more accurate counts documenting more, not less, rape and sexual assault. Using even more advanced study methods that look at drug-impaired consent, the most recent National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (2010) associated with the Centers for Disease Control counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug-facilitated). [11]

In summary, depending on how you measure rape and sexual assault – there are huge differences in what you find. From 85,593 rapes and attempted rates (FBI, 2010) to 248,3000 rapes and sexual assaults (NCVS, 2007) to 1.27 million attempted or completed rapes or sexual assaults (NIPSV, 2010).

Despite all these differences, often certain kinds of data are cited that are most favorable to certain positions. As pointed out, “It’s a real cause for alarm that there is such a huge discrepancy between the national survey [with the highest quality data] and the ones that don’t, yet are more often cited.” [12]

This is even truer in other parts of the world – where rape is only rarely reported due to the extreme social stigma cast on those who have been raped, or the fear of being disowned by their families, or subjected to violence, including honor killings. Furthermore, in countries where premarital sex and fornication are against the law, victims of rape can face prosecution under these laws, if there is not sufficient evidence to prove a rape in the court.

However you measure it, these numbers reflect a significant problem. As one researcher summarized, “The numbers in this survey show an alarmingly high rate of sexual violence in this country…This should serve as a wake-up call that more must be done to address the problem in the US.” [13]


Does Porn Really Decrease Rates of Sexual Assault?

And back to a biased site that only cherry picks the evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for the link. I noticed this study states that random heterosexual couples were questioned from online sources like Facebook, Twitter or others like newspapers, etc. asking them about their perceived consequences from viewing pornography and the result was more frequently couples thought the effects were positive, more often than negative. Okay, that was interesting, but not sure how informative or accurate overall. For one thing, most of those couples could likely have already been in stable relationships, unlike situations where women, young girls or boys are controlled by pimps and bought by johns with no freedom to express the harm they experience inspired by porn.

I would think hearing accounts from victims who have escaped sex trafficking situations and the sex industry would present a much more accurate picture.


http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/FarleyRentinganOrgan11-06.pdf

Yes, one can always find biased sources. But that one scrapes the bottom of the barrel. I see that they sited Andrea Dworkin. Now there is nothing wrong with feminism, but she is not a feminist. She is a female sexist that is as bad as the worst male chauvinist. Even liberal feminists saw her as some kind of nut:

Andrea Rita Dworkin (1946–2005) was an American radical feminist and writer best known for her criticism of pornography, which she argued was linked to rape and other forms of violence against women. Her views were widely criticized by liberal feminists and others

Andrea Dworkin - Wikipedia

When your site uses such a poor and biased source it loses all credibility. Face it, all you can find are heavily biased sites and extremists. This should tell you that your argument does not have much merit.

One more quote from the article. Not only was she against pornography, she thought that sex between men and women was always wrong:

"In 1987, Dworkin published Intercourse, in which she extended her analysis from pornography to sexual intercourse itself, and argued that the sort of sexual subordination depicted in pornography was central to men's and women's experiences of heterosexual intercourse in a male supremacist society. In the book, she argues that all heterosexual sex in our patriarchal society is coercive and degrading to women, and sexual penetration may by its very nature doom women to inferiority and submission, and "may be immune to reform"."

Bolding mine.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, one can always find biased sources. But that one scrapes the bottom of the barrel. I see that they sited Andrea Dworkin. Now there is nothing wrong with feminism, but she is not a feminist. She is a female sexist that is as bad as the worst male chauvinist. Even liberal feminists saw her as some kind of nut:

Andrea Rita Dworkin (1946–2005) was an American radical feminist and writer best known for her criticism of pornography, which she argued was linked to rape and other forms of violence against women. Her views were widely criticized by liberal feminists and others

Andrea Dworkin - Wikipedia

When your site uses such a poor and biased source it loses all credibility. Face it, all you can find are heavily biased sites and extremists. This should tell you that your argument does not have much merit.

One more quote from the article. Not only was she against pornography, she thought that sex between men and women was always wrong:

"In 1987, Dworkin published Intercourse, in which she extended her analysis from pornography to sexual intercourse itself, and argued that the sort of sexual subordination depicted in pornography was central to men's and women's experiences of heterosexual intercourse in a male supremacist society. In the book, she argues that all heterosexual sex in our patriarchal society is coercive and degrading to women, and sexual penetration may by its very nature doom women to inferiority and submission, and "may be immune to reform"."

Bolding mine.

Okay, Dworkin is a very extreme feminist. I did not know that and I would likely disagree with many of her views, including what you highlighted in bold. Yet, I don’t necessarily think that means her studies or information concerning pornography and violence against women is invalidated. I don’t think the site I linked to is bias or invalidated either for referencing some of her work. She was only one source of several.

Maybe you would be willing to consider the research of Dr. Melissa Farley...


“Dr. Farley has practiced as a clinical psychologist for 50 years. She brings that experience to her consultations with agencies, governments, and advocates for prostituted and trafficked women. She has articulated the harms of prostitution, pornography, and trafficking as an expert witness in forensic evaluations. She has been categorized as a legal expert on the effects of sexual violence against women and children, posttraumatic stress disorder, dissociation, prostitution, and trafficking. In 2013 she received the Innovative Demand Reduction Program award from Global Centurion/Norma Hotaling Awards.
Melissa Farley has written 39 peer-reviewed articles on prostitution and trafficking, and 2 books, Prostitution, Trafficking & Traumatic Stress (2004) and Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections (2007). Her research has been used by governments in South Africa, Canada, France, Cambodia, New Zealand, Ghana, Sweden, United Kingdom, and United States for education and policy development on prostitution and trafficking.”

https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Melissa-Farley-new-CV.pdf

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, Dworkin is a very extreme feminist. I did not know that and I would likely disagree with many of her views, including what you highlighted in bold. Yet, I don’t necessarily think that means her studies or information concerning pornography and violence against women is invalidated. I don’t think the site I linked to is bias or invalidated either for referencing some of her work. She was only one source of several.

Maybe you would be willing to consider the research of Dr. Melissa Farley...


“Dr. Farley has practiced as a clinical psychologist for 50 years. She brings that experience to her consultations with agencies, governments, and advocates for prostituted and trafficked women. She has articulated the harms of prostitution, pornography, and trafficking as an expert witness in forensic evaluations. She has been categorized as a legal expert on the effects of sexual violence against women and children, posttraumatic stress disorder, dissociation, prostitution, and trafficking. In 2013 she received the Innovative Demand Reduction Program award from Global Centurion/Norma Hotaling Awards.
Melissa Farley has written 39 peer-reviewed articles on prostitution and trafficking, and 2 books, Prostitution, Trafficking & Traumatic Stress (2004) and Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections (2007). Her research has been used by governments in South Africa, Canada, France, Cambodia, New Zealand, Ghana, Sweden, United Kingdom, and United States for education and policy development on prostitution and trafficking.”

https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Melissa-Farley-new-CV.pdf

The problem is that one can always cherry pick a few people on the extreme. Most do not seem to agree with these people and they do not seem to be able to make a convincing argument. You only choose them because they tend to agree with you. And your last example seems to be involved more with involuntary prostitution than anything else. That is not the topic of this thread. Can there be abuses in porn? Of course, one can find abuses in countless industries. That does not condemn the entire industry. One needs to look at the complete picture and you won't do that.

 

[InChrist]

The problem is that one can always cherry pick a few people on the extreme. Most do not seem to agree with these people and they do not seem to be able to make a convincing argument. You only choose them because they tend to agree with you. And your last example seems to be involved more with involuntary prostitution than anything else. That is not the topic of this thread. Can there be abuses in porn? Of course, one can find abuses in countless industries. That does not condemn the entire industry. One needs to look at the complete picture and you won't do that.

Or you won’t look at the complete picture. Maybe I will expound on this further tomorrow. Goodnight.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Or you won’t look at the complete picture. Maybe I will expound on this further tomorrow. Goodnight.

It is the other way around. You only focus on the negative and not the positive. I never said it was perfect, but an unbiased eye can see more positives than negatives.

 

[InChrist]

It is the other way around. You only focus on the negative and not the positive. I never said it was perfect, but an unbiased eye can see more positives than negatives.

True, I only focus on the negative. That is because I see it as completely negative. First, because porn is fake sex. Real sex is positive and good; an intimacy based in a loving, caring personal relationship. Porn is performance: no love, no caring, no intimacy and no personal relationship because it objectifies people instead. Porn is negative because it’s a lie, a twisted imitation. Along, with that from what I understand more and more porn is becoming violent and presenting the mindset that sex and violence or degrading behavior go together.

I think that is enough of a reason to judge porn as something negative, but then there are all the other harmful ways it affects people.


“Pornography is an act of prostitution. A survivor of prostitution explained, "Pornography is prostitution that is legalized as long as someone gets to take pictures.”
Pornography documents and facilitates trafficking.
Please don't mystify the sex industry. Don't assume it's vastly different from other types of exploitation and human cruelty.
The real lives of those who are trafficked or prostituted or made into pornography are often indistinguishable from the real lives of victims of rape, incest and intimate partner violence. The main difference is money. Profits turn sexual assault of children, rape, domestic violence, humiliation and sexual harassment, and pictures taken of those things - into a business enterprise.
The argument that prostitution is a job is made from the perspective of pimps and sex buyers, not from the perspective of those in it. For those in it, prostitution is not a job, it is "paid-for rape."
Like other global businesses, there are domestic and international sectors, marketing sectors, a range of physical locations out of which sex businesses operate. There are many different owners and managers, and the sex trafficking industry is constantly expanding as technology, law, and public opinion permit.
In the real world, from the perspective of the person in the sex trade - pornography, prostitution, and sex trafficking are the same.
More than 80% of the time, women in the sex industry are under pimp control - that is what trafficking is. Pornography meets the legal definition of trafficking if the pornographer recruits, entices, or obtains women for the purpose of photographing live commercial sex acts.”


https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Pornography-prostitution-trafficking.pdf

 

[Subduction Zone]

True, I only focus on the negative. That is because I see it as completely negative. First, because porn is fake sex. Real sex is positive and good; an intimacy based in a loving, caring personal relationship. Porn is performance: no love, no caring, no intimacy and no personal relationship because it objectifies people instead. Porn is negative because it’s a lie, a twisted imitation. Along, with that from what I understand more and more porn is becoming violent and presenting the mindset that sex and violence or degrading behavior go together.

I think that is enough of a reason to judge porn as something negative, but then there are all the other harmful ways it affects people.


“Pornography is an act of prostitution. A survivor of prostitution explained, "Pornography is prostitution that is legalized as long as someone gets to take pictures.”
Pornography documents and facilitates trafficking.
Please don't mystify the sex industry. Don't assume it's vastly different from other types of exploitation and human cruelty.
The real lives of those who are trafficked or prostituted or made into pornography are often indistinguishable from the real lives of victims of rape, incest and intimate partner violence. The main difference is money. Profits turn sexual assault of children, rape, domestic violence, humiliation and sexual harassment, and pictures taken of those things - into a business enterprise.
The argument that prostitution is a job is made from the perspective of pimps and sex buyers, not from the perspective of those in it. For those in it, prostitution is not a job, it is "paid-for rape."
Like other global businesses, there are domestic and international sectors, marketing sectors, a range of physical locations out of which sex businesses operate. There are many different owners and managers, and the sex trafficking industry is constantly expanding as technology, law, and public opinion permit.
In the real world, from the perspective of the person in the sex trade - pornography, prostitution, and sex trafficking are the same.
More than 80% of the time, women in the sex industry are under pimp control - that is what trafficking is. Pornography meets the legal definition of trafficking if the pornographer recruits, entices, or obtains women for the purpose of photographing live commercial sex acts.”


https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Pornography-prostitution-trafficking.pdf

If a site conflates prostitution with trafficking they have lost all credibility.

 

[Milton Platt]

I think it’s time that people wake-up and realize or remember that porn is not healthy or harmless. It is not “good or nice”
Bodies are not commodities to be used, abused, brought and sold or viewed as merchandise for one’s selfish pleasure.
Those are some of my thoughts. Express yours if you like.
https://endsexualexploitation.org/a...-nice/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
Pornhub and Free Porn Are Neither "Good" Nor "Nice" - National Center on Sexual Exploitation

You cannot stop porn from being made or stop people from watching porn any more than you can stop people from drinking liquor or thinking the earth is flat.
Porn can be exploitative. Regulation would go a long way to prevent that. Almost anything can be exploitative. In some cases, it is hard to determine who is being exploited. In a topless bar, who is being exploited? the women who strip, or the men who are fed drinks at exorbitant prices and relieved of their money by the same girls? Perhaps both....perhaps neither.

All workers are exploited by the companies they work for. Governments exploit citizens for tax money......Exploitation isn't necessarily bad.

 

[InChrist]

If a site conflates prostitution with trafficking they have lost all credibility.

It’s not just “a site”, the views expressed are those of Dr. Melissa Farley who has years and years of experience in the areas of pornography, prostitution and trafficking and the effects these have upon those involved.
Whose views on this subject really have more credibility, yours or Dr Farley’s?



“Dr. Farley has practiced as a clinical psychologist for 50 years. She brings that experience to her consultations with agencies, governments, and advocates for prostituted and trafficked women. She has articulated the harms of prostitution, pornography, and trafficking as an expert witness in forensic evaluations. She has been categorized as a legal expert on the effects of sexual violence against women and children, posttraumatic stress disorder, dissociation, prostitution, and trafficking. In 2013 she received the Innovative Demand Reduction Program award from Global Centurion/Norma Hotaling Awards.

Melissa Farley has written 39 peer-reviewed articles on prostitution and trafficking, and 2 books, Prostitution, Trafficking & Traumatic Stress (2004) and Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections (2007). Her research has been used by governments in South Africa, Canada, France, Cambodia, New Zealand, Ghana, Sweden, United Kingdom, and United“


https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Melissa-Farley-new-CV.pdf

 

[Milton Platt]

It’s not just “a site”, the views expressed are those of Dr. Melissa Farley who has years and years of experience in the areas of pornography, prostitution and trafficking and the effects these have upon those involved.
Whose views on this subject really have more credibility, yours or Dr Farley’s?



“Dr. Farley has practiced as a clinical psychologist for 50 years. She brings that experience to her consultations with agencies, governments, and advocates for prostituted and trafficked women. She has articulated the harms of prostitution, pornography, and trafficking as an expert witness in forensic evaluations. She has been categorized as a legal expert on the effects of sexual violence against women and children, posttraumatic stress disorder, dissociation, prostitution, and trafficking. In 2013 she received the Innovative Demand Reduction Program award from Global Centurion/Norma Hotaling Awards.

Melissa Farley has written 39 peer-reviewed articles on prostitution and trafficking, and 2 books, Prostitution, Trafficking & Traumatic Stress (2004) and Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections (2007). Her research has been used by governments in South Africa, Canada, France, Cambodia, New Zealand, Ghana, Sweden, United Kingdom, and United“


https://prostitutionresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Melissa-Farley-new-CV.pdf

I think the point is that although they may sometimes be associated, prostitution and trafficking are two different things.

 

[InChrist]

You cannot stop porn from being made or stop people from watching porn any more than you can stop people from drinking liquor or thinking the earth is flat.
Porn can be exploitative. Regulation would go a long way to prevent that. Almost anything can be exploitative. In some cases, it is hard to determine who is being exploited. In a topless bar, who is being exploited? the women who strip, or the men who are fed drinks at exorbitant prices and relieved of their money by the same girls? Perhaps both....perhaps neither.

All workers are exploited by the companies they work for. Governments exploit citizens for tax money......Exploitation isn't necessarily bad.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Just because everyone is exploited to one degree or another I don’t think makes it okay, do you? I am not so naive that I think pornography will be eliminated. But it is still worth bringing the issue to light, nevertheless. As people become aware, hopefully the demand will decrease.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If a person cannot see the benefits of porn, or even of prostitution then they are not really qualified to comment on it in a meaningful way in my opinion.

There are abuses. But that does not mean that abuse is the norm. Most women that go into prostitution seem to do so voluntarily. Granted it is often due to some bad choices that they have made but it can also be a pathway out of those choices.

My housemates son had a bad opioid addiction. So did his girlfriend. She would sometimes sell herself to pay for their habit. In fact once while he was in jail she asked if I would hold the bail money that she was earning. I was not going to bail him out myself because I thought that he was safer in jail. But I could not turn down her request. So I may have been an accessory to prostitution. I did not get any money myself. I simply held it until she had enough to pay his bail. Well of course he did more crimes when he was bailed out, and she did too. They both ended up going to prison for thee years. And that was what they both needed. Now amazingly they are both out. They are both clean. And they are still together. Engaged to get married of all things. They also both have jobs which I know that the son never had for long and I a don't think she ever had one for long either. It has been about a year with no sign of relapse.

Prostitution allowed her to survive. It was also a choice that she did not want to maintain. But there was no abuse that I know of in their relationship. She could have easily have left him when he was in jail. They could have easily gone their separate ways when in prison. But that was not the case. I thought that they were both lifers, people that go in and out of the system but getting off of opioids freed them so that they could be the decent people they were underneath.

That case is not a ringing endorsement, but I doubt if you will find one. Perhaps if sex workers were viewed differently. But they as a couple could separate sex and love in a good way.

 

[InChrist]

I think the point is that although they may sometimes be associated, prostitution and trafficking are two different things.

They may by two different things, but I think the point being made by those who have escaped the sex industry and those working with them is that pornography, prostitution and trafficking all overlap and the same tactics of violence, abuse and control are present.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They may by two different things, but I think the point being made by those who have escaped the sex industry and those working with them is that pornography, prostitution and trafficking all overlap and the same tactics of violence, abuse and control are present.

No one has denied that some abuses exist. But abuses, at least in porn and probably in prostitution, are the exception rather than the rule. Of course the government set that back a bit. The internet allowed many girls to work profitably and safely without a pimp. In a case of overzealousness those resources were attacked. Not wise in the long run.

 

[Milton Platt]

They may by two different things, but I think the point being made by those who have escaped the sex industry and those working with them is that pornography, prostitution and trafficking all overlap and the same tactics of violence, abuse and control are present.

Yes, because they are either underground or the people working in the porn industry are reticent to speak up about abuse because of the social stigma.
If the porn industry was really in the open (not stigmatized by religious zealotry) and well regulated, much of the issues would disappear. If porn production was not stigmatized an a woman or man was not shunned for acting in or producing in a film, there would be no need for trafficking. Why risk an illegal activity when you can simply place an ad in the paper and get applicants?
You seem to be concerned about the negative things that sometimes are associated with porn, and that's good, but offer no objections to the porn itself. In other words, it sounds like if there was no trafficking and people signed up for it voluntarily and were paid and treated well, it would be okay with you, right? And you have not provided a clear definition of what porn means to you.

Also, just because some porn is exploitative it does not follow that all porn is exploitative.