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Featured Pope proposes a new "sin"?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Vee, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Vee

    Vee Active Member
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    I saw in a number of news outlets that Pope Francis is considering adding the category of “ecological sin” to the Catholic Church’s official teachings.
    I don't have a lot of details yet, but as a general idea, I like it, not in terms of adding it to a list of sins, but people need to take better care of the earth.
    This is not just about religion, it affects everyone, religious or not
    Any toughs?
     
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  2. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    One of the(potentially) good things about the RCC is that the Pope isn't bound to Scripture.
    Tom
     
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  3. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Of course, it's inconvenient that the Pope's predecessors decided what to canonize into the Bible.
    Oh well.
    Tom

    ETA ~Another Pope managed to convince people that abortion and birth control are immoral without much bothering with Scripture either.
    Oh well.~
     
  4. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I definitely think it should be considered a sin. Let's call it what it is. Raping the earth is not being a good steward of the gift of this earth to us.
     
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  5. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    But what does "sin" mean if anyone can decide that some behavior is a a sin? And others aren't?
    Where's God when you need It?

    I don't think dumping toxic waste into the local river is a sin. The Bible doesn't say anything about toxic waste. (Abortion either, but oh well). I do think that choosing death for other humans is immoral. But that's me, a hard core prolifer. Way more hard core than any Bible believer that I know.
    Tom
     
  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Raping and exploiting God's creation is most certainly a sin, so I agree with him.
     
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  7. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    According to you?
    Or what? Who?

    By who's authority is trashing the biosphere a sin? It certainly isn't Christian Scripture.
    What do you even mean by sin in that sentence?
    Tom
     
  8. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Seems like that would sorta be a job requirement for that particular position...
     
  9. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Probably because you're a protestant.

    (My spellchecker kept changing the word protestant to prostitute;))

    You don't seem to understand that not all Christians are sola scripture. Even Jesus wasn't. He said so, many times, and was quoted in the NT.

    But Jesus did make the Pope His representative on earth. That is in the Bible.
    Tom
     
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  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    @Vee....its a scary thing to see how polluted this Earth has become. They have known about the potential gravity of the situation for more than 40 years! The attitude was...”we should do something about that”....but nobody did, (too busy making money) and the pollution just kept happening...and here we are, viewing the results of 40 years of non stop polluting and saying “I wish they had done something about that that” but we continued to use the pollutants that they sold to us. No one stopped them.

    Humans have a habit of not responding to a threat till it becomes life threatening. :rolleyes:

    But when we consider that human activity is destroying the habitats of so many of earth’s species to the point of endangering their continued existence, there is so much more to man’s ruination of the only home he has. :( What short-sighted stupidity!

    But, as Revelation 11:18 says....’ God will bring to ruin those who are ruining the earth’.....and that was written before man even had the ability to do the kind of damage we see today..... he will see to it that all those responsible for manufacturing and promoting these things will be brought to justice. He designed humans to share the planet with all the other creatures, not to drive them and himself to extinction. o_O
     
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  11. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Hmm, ... I thought there was a commandment to that effect. The 12th, I believe: "Thou shalt not make the earth a desert and call it 'Peace'".
     
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  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Personally, I think some things are pretty self-evident. Doing harm to other, showing disregard for shared spaces, destruction without regard for consequences, etc., are not needing a booming voice from heaven to tell you its bad. Experiencing it tells you that.

    It says in the first chapters of the Bible that we are to be responsible stewards of the earth. Furthermore, Levitical law clearly teaches that the land is God's, and that is why they had things like the Sabbath year, among other things, which was for the purpose of the land not being continually exploited for gain, and that the poor can have that harvest. Even while they had a system of land ownership, ultimately is was God's, not theirs. That is Biblical. This all is about respecting the land.

    Secondly, it's common sense. Water flows downstream where others livelihoods depend. By putting toxic waste upstream of them, you are in fact sinning. You are polluting and destroying the natural environment because of greed, or laziness and no respect of others. No booming voice from heaven necessary to understand that either. That is sin.

    For some people however, they need an authority like the Pope to spell this out for them, what should otherwise be naturally obvious.
     
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  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Good for him!
     
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  14. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that the world ends or changes eventually through a divine hand in the Christian conception, that's the probably the reason why it never was a sin in the first place. I think maybe in biblical religion, nature was often seen as something you endure, rather than something you sustain or appease. The eden land was probably seen often as a metaphysically generated situation, a close cousin to the idea of heaven and not something that really existed as the levant of antiquity gave way to desertification.
     
  15. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    The pope can make up his own sins?

    How cool is that!
     
  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Its already wrong, so putting it on a list would be worth considering. I don't have any clever advice about it, but I am interested in whether it justifies the position of pope.

    I don't follow and can't see that in the biblical canon. I think the argument really is that its the way things have been for a long time. When I was a young protestant homeschooling for the 7th grade and using the Abeka system, my History lesson said that the papal position was an invention which came centuries after the Common Era and that it was created through a political struggle. I think however that my curriculum was designed by southern baptists, and it may have left some roman catholic information out.

    By the way: people sometimes wonder how Peter who is merely a fisherman gets such a tall hat, but its pretty obvious. Paul is a tent maker.
    Indeed, yes. I'm curious about your technical opinion. You've said before that you have done computer programming. Have you been following some of the new things that can be done with robots? I'm wondering if they might be put to use cleaning up all of the sludge, picking through the garbage and separating it, locating all the pollution out there to get rid of it? That way people won't have to do it. It will be very tedious and technical labor.

    That is a charitable comment. Most people in modern times who are not Roman Catholics seem to feel that the position of pope is unnecessary. That is in a way what the OP is talking about. Do we need someone to identify new sins?
     
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  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    That wasn't me...never been a computer programmer....but I have checked out what some are doing in a positive way to clean up around their own environments. Good on them....but is it enough? The trouble is pollution doesn't always stay local....the ocean has been viewed as nothing more than a rubbish tip for too long. The ocean floor is littered with plastic and it's killing the marine life.
    Land fill is polluted by the chemical based 'stuff' that is thrown away in the trash on a daily basis.

    The greatest tragedy is that this could have all been prevented. If the plastic had only been made of hemp instead of petrochemicals, it would have broken down in the environment, feeding the soil nutrients, whilst also feeding the marine life something nutritious, not poisonous or entangling. Greedy humans, driven by love of money, did this.

    If technology can be used to clean up the planet, then that would be good, but the problem is so widespread and the task so enormous, that no one wants to pay for what will become years, perhaps decades of hard work. The first logical step of course would be to stop the manufacture of petroleum based plastics and replace them with hemp based products. It should have been so from the beginning, but big business had other plans. We are reaping what they have sown....
     
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  18. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    That is actually a huge question. Sadly, yes, I think a lot of people need what is some sort of actual authority to speak to what one should believe, because the average person is in fact too overwhelmed to know what to think. That's a tragic thing, and a failure of both church and state. That is also a perfect feeding ground for authorization despots who tweet what should be believed irrespective of any actually objective truth to support it. At least with the Pope, he symbolizes what should be trustworthy. But he's not hateful enough for the current pallet of the consumer.

    Yes, the ultimate goal is that we should be a moral agent from within, not needing external authorities to lead us about by the nose. What do we do in the meantime, but hope for some benevolent voice to be heard over the hateful, narcissistic politician. Naivety, is like small children who need protection. The more you create dependence on external authority through gutting education, the more vulnerable they become.
     
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  19. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    Someone please oust this guy.

    He's pretty much proof that the Pope acts not on behalf of religious truth or Jesus, but as a prostitute for the secular world.

    There is already Rogatian Sunday, a time where Christians give back to the Earth by planting stuff, and there is also a xommand to be good stewards of the Earth. You probably like this because you don't know any better. But we don't need more "sins" tacked on.

    Jesus died to save us from sin, and here someone is trying to tell us there are more.
     
  20. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    In the Christian traditions, "sin" specifically means a transgression against their god, right? Presuming this is the case, what is "ecological sin" and in what way is this a transgression against their god? Would like to hear some more theological details about this.
     
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