Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

[steeltoes]

I'm leery of what the pope means by "doing good."

 

[Me Myself]

The pope is not a Christian and how do you interpret Isaiah 64:6 and Romans 3:10. They are crystal clear.

Simple:

Jesus was right

Paul was wrong.

 

[Me Myself]

John 3:16 goes on to say whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM. The pope says whosoever does good (right) that's not the same thing, so you can't agrue 4 the pope here. A couple verse later it says, "Those who DO NOT BELIEVE stand condemned already." Nothing bout good deeds ( Isaiah tells it all )

Jesus before Paul:

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they are doing "

Jesus after Paul

*shuts the door of heaven in the face of an atheist who died saving an orphanage from a fire*

God: who was it, Son?

Jesus : no one important Father, just a heathen. I told him he can burn in hell.

God: I am tweeting that to Satan right now.

 

[Open_Minded]

I am sorry to hear this, truly. Here in the UK I must say that the church has been very much in line with the Vatican II reforms and other than defending moral teachings of the church, has always had a positive role in interfaith. ....

Thank you for all of the information you posted. It's important to learn something new everyday. Thank you for today's, "something new".

Do you believe that belief that non-Catholics are redeemed like the Catholics as long as good works are done is a harmony factor? I beg to differ. The majority of modern Christians believe that non-Christians are not redeemed unless they believe because Christ said in the Bible that He is the ONLY Way, the Truth and the Life; no one goes to the Father except through Him. That doesn't stop them from being nice and living in harmony with others, except that they have true compassion for the unsaved.

Well - firstly - as my father always says, "Being in the majority does not make one right - it simply makes one .... well ... 'in the majority'".

Secondly: provide proof of your assertion that the, "majority of modern Christians believe that non-Christians are not redeemed ....".

I found this PEW research article - and it actually had a pleasant surprise for me. As an American Christian - surrounded on all sides by extremist Christians - I was thinking along the same lines as you - that the "majority of modern Christians" condemned their fellow human beings to hell for not being Christian. But - I might be wrong. And in my efforts towards intentional optimism this PEW research is good news.

Proportion of those who say many religions can lead to eternal life who cite at least one non-Christian religion that leads to salvation:
All Christians: 80%
White Evangelicals: 72% (a real surprise to me)
White Mainline: 85%
Black Protest: 81%
White Catholic: 88%

Considering how religiously conservative America is (at this point in history) the above numbers were very good news to me. It means America is heading in the right direction. Just because the "leaders" of the extreme right-wing Christian point of view have a huge mouth piece on our talk radio media, FOX news, etc... doesn't mean their views are a reflection of reality. I am honestly feeling better about the state of religion in America than I did before I read that PEW research article.

Analogy: When I am walking towards a pit, not knowing it's there. I would be grateful if someone informed me and took me to a safer path. Compassion is not watching as I walk and walk and walk and then dropped into the pit, then coming over and say, "You're okay." Standing above ground and looking at me, not doing anything to lift me out of that pit. You may not believe in Heaven, Hell or God or Jesus, but please meditate on the analogy to understand my definition of compassion.

No intent to offend, thanks.

It would be wonderful if you answered the question posted by LewisNotMiller.

Who dug the pit?

 

[Ashoka]

John 3:16 goes on to say whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM. The pope says whosoever does good (right) that's not the same thing, so you can't agrue 4 the pope here. A couple verse later it says, "Those who DO NOT BELIEVE stand condemned already." Nothing bout good deeds ( Isaiah tells it all )

All caps make everything better.

 

[paarsurrey]

Catholic redemption is much easier for non Catholics than it is for Catholics.

Interesting!

Please elaborate.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm a Christian Contemplative (raised Catholic - but have participated in the Lutheran denomination for decades).

I'm reaching the point where I'm fed up with religion in general. 10-15 years ago I used to defend religion because it's done much good in the world. But... it is exhausting to see how people twist and turn Bible verses in order to allow for hate and intollerance and war.

I've become convinced - in watching the fundamentalists try to take over our political system - that religion is a weapon wielded by many to [FONT=&quot]subjugate many more.

It is possible to know the SACRED without the attachments of religion and all of its dogma. The older I get, the more inclined I am towards practicing quiet awareness of the SACRED ONE in ALL, through ALL, and at the foundation of ALL ....[/FONT]

It is very sad but it is true; they use religion as a weapon to wield power; they politicize it.

 

[paarsurrey]

I never understood how some religions can focus on what you believe, more than what you do. It boggles my mind. You could be a murderer and a thief and yet, if you believe the right thing, you're okay.

(And yes, there are some Christians who actually believe this. I know first hand. I grew up in it.)

It is true; perhaps they do it for numbers or to give some solace to the criminal to reform or else he will be even more dangerous than before being despaired. There is always a room for reformation. It is to rehabilitate and to reform; not bad though.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe understanding comes with belief.

I believe this is a misrepresentation. A person could have been a murderer and a thief in the past but receiving Jesus changes that. A person who says he has received Jesus then goes and steals or murders is not telling the truth.

I believe that believing the right thing will make everything well.

Regarding colored by me in magenta.
They say Paul did the same; but I doubt it.

 

[paarsurrey]

"The right thing" could be anything, good or bad. It can be a very slippery slope. In the Old Testament, believing that it was okay to kill non-believers was "the right thing to believe." If by right you mean goodness and kindness, then this is fine. If by right, you mean believing that group a is going to heaven and group b is going to hell for having different beliefs about God, to me, this is wrong.

Though I feel like I may have gone off topic with my post above, yet I think it could still somewhat be part of the topic; The Pope believes God is more interested in what people do, rather than what they believe, and this is a good start.

Pranams.

I agree with you.

 

[Man of Faith]

This confirms the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

 

[Revoltingest]

This confirms the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

When I see throngs of Xians filing into churches every Sunday, they certainly
don't go to hear opposing views. Is this not to soothe their itching ears too?

Edit: Yes, you read it right....it once said "thongs of Xians".
I fixed it....wouldn't want to conjure up any offensive mental pix.

 

[4consideration]

This confirms the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

This is a verse that anyone, from any church, could use against someone else's belief -- if those beliefs are in disagreement with one's own beliefs.

IMO, it doesn't really confirm anything.

 

[LuisDantas]

I agree. That verse doesn't really say anything beyond that there are strong disagreements about the validity of teachings. By itself, it does not even hint at how to tell the valid from the invalid.

 

[Ashoka]

This confirms the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

<_< We've been through this. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible is right or true.

 

[Windwalker]

This confirms the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

One could mount an argument that what you believe is in fact telling you what you want to hear. How many millions of people file into churches to be assured they're going to heaven when they die? People who are there to hear what they want to hear, whose focus in on themselves and their personal salvation?

:sad:

 

[InChrist]

<_< We've been through this. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible is right or true.

If the Bible is truly God's Word then it does prove itself to be true whether or not one chooses to accept such truth is another matter.

 

[InChrist]

One could mount an argument that what you believe is in fact telling you what you want to hear. How many millions of people file into churches to be assured they're going to heaven when they die? People who are there to hear what they want to hear, whose focus in on themselves and their personal salvation?

:sad:

Many churches today do simply tell people what they want to hear, but not those that teach and speak from the biblical scriptures. The Bible does not cater to human desire or flatter human nature and the focus is on serving God and others, not self.

 

[Ashoka]

If the Bible is truly God's Word then it does prove itself to be true whether or not one chooses to accept such truth is another matter.

It is circular logic to use the Bible to prove the Bible is true. It doesn't hold up. It would be something as nonsensical as me using the Harry Potter books to prove Hogwarts is real.

I am sorry, but unless there is outside proof, it cannot work.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hogwarts isn't real?
My dreams are crushed!