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Featured Pope Francis removes from Vatican doctrine office archbishop who is believed to have banned same-sex

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by pearl, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    ROME (AP) — Pope Francis took the first step Monday to reorganize the Vatican’s powerful doctrine office, removing the No. 2 official widely believed responsible for a controversial document barring blessings for same-sex couples because God “cannot bless sin.”

    He was widely seen as being behind the March 2021 document that outraged the gay community, which Francis has made pains to welcome into the church fold.The document declared that the Catholic Church won’t bless same-sex unions because God “cannot bless sin.” The document said Francis had been informed of the document and “gave his assent” to its publication, but Francis was apparently taken by surprise by its impact.

    Francis has since made several gestures of outreach to the gay Catholic community and their advocates, including a recent letter congratulating an American nun once sanctioned by the CDF, Sister Jeannine Gramick, on her 50 years of LGBTQ ministry.

    Pope Francis removes from Vatican doctrine office archbishop who is believed to have banned same-sex blessings | America Magazine
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Interesting, so let's see what happens next. But the conservative bishops are undoubtedly fit to be tied!
     
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  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    The magazine is called America:The Jesuit Review. There are several leaders about to retire in the congregational office. By demoting this younger secretary, Francis leaves a question mark in the air. "Who will be filling all of the positions as these others retire?" That is why it amounts to a reorganization of the office. Three years from now all the faces will have changed.

    ***************
    I started looking around at the magazine's other offered articles. One was titled "Sin cannot cancel out your baptism." Another "What do Catholics mean when we say the eucharist is the true blood and body of Christ?" Another "On abortion catholics including politicians can't reduce the issue to a question of choice."

    Finally it said "This is your last free article." :D
     
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  4. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    Wait until they (the popes) find out that they’re wrong, that they’ve tortured thousands of Catholics over such codswallop for decades. That they believe God has such a prurient interest in sex is twisted at best. That is not befitting the omnipotent omnibenevolent God they believe in. That they have such an interest is twisted.
     
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  5. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Love can never be a sin.

    Never.
     
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  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    So, cancel culture?
     
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  7. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The 'magazine' has a history of controversy with the Vatican and conservative Catholics.

    The Jesuits swear an oath of obedience to the papacy but, throughout their 441-year history, their independent ways and elitist style have ruffled many Popes. John Paul II, no stranger to controversy, last week took a bold step to bridle the Society of Jesus. In a move interpreted as a warning to all religious orders, he suspended the normal workings of the Jesuit Constitutions, removed the acting leader of the organization and replaced him with two Italian Jesuits who enjoy the Vatican's confidence: Paolo Dezza, 79, and Joseph Pittau, 53.

    Pope Francis is a Jesuit, interestingly, he took the name of 'Francis', a Franciscan Order. The first pope to take that name.

    As usual, most of the controversy arises from one's take on Vatican II:

    The Second Vatican Council (1962-65) was the great watershed of modern Catholic history, the dividing line between a church which had escaped to a remarkable degree the inroads of modern secularization and a church which found itself thrown, willy nilly, into a whirlpool of contemporary culture. Although it scarcely authorized such a result, the Council was widely interpreted as an overwhelming signal of release, “liberating” Catholics from all the obligations to which their faith had historically committed them.
    The Pope and the Jesuits (crisismagazine.com)
     
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  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    So much changed in America in early 1960. One of our presidents, our first Roman Catholic president, was assassinated in '63. During that Vatican II. In the USA there used to be fears and claims that Catholics would try to overrun the country by sneaking in a Catholic president who was beholden to the pope. These fears arose due to the authority of the pope over Roman Catholics. Your loyalty and patriotism seemed questionable. Perhaps Vatican II changed that. Perhaps Kennedy did. I don't know what changed it, but people stopped talking about that.

    Off topic I guess. I don't know what exactly happened in that council, so I don't know exactly how it affects this current topic of blessing these unions.
     
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  9. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    That choice to me reflects the key to all his actions since. Leprosy at one point was considered the result of sin. Lepers were physically unclean and shunned by society. For St. Francis, the awakening of embracing a leper was for me a strong testament that God's love is not just for the saint but also for the sinner. The Pope's choice was to explicitly align himself with that message and many of his actions since then are clearly motivated by that alignment.

    One of the reasons I've following his work as pope is that friends of mine are involved with https://www.followingfrancis.org/
     
  10. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    How so?
     
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  11. Jack11

    Jack11 Member

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    That is simply not true Homosexuality was looked down on by all religions and society a mere 20 30 years ago. Every other church that exist and society did the same thing or do you deny that.
     
  12. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    So it is widely perceive this archbishop is the culprit.
    Doesn't mean he did or there is no proof given.
    So the Catholic church maybe just tossing the media a bone to keep the pack distracted.
    Fairly easy now to offer a sacrifice to pay for sins of the past without any real accountability.
     
  13. Jack11

    Jack11 Member

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    What ever church is sinless on this subject may cast a stone there are no innocent churches all were guilty.
     
  14. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Vatican II has modernized the RCC. Only formally.
    The substance of Catholicism has remained untouched.
    Finally people had the chance to listen to the Mass in their own language.
     
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  15. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if a double entendre was intended, but kudos, that made me smile, and yes one can easily imagine they must be. Progress is always painfully slow, and usually painful for someone. I guess some people will have to be dragged into the 21st century, a case of history repeating itself.

    Maybe a gay pride event in Vatican city would help?:D:cool:

    There was one in my town a while back, just before Covid, and I have to say I have seldom attended an event with so many people in attendance, and yet all I saw was people enjoying themselves all day long, with no trouble or acrimony on display.

    If there are any Catholics in, maybe they could email the Pope? Feel him out, so to speak. :eek::D
     
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  16. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    I don't trust the Church's motives behind this action. But I rarely trust anyone's motives.
     
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  17. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The aftermath of the Council has brought increased division over the 'Spirit' of Vatican II as the theologians on each side continue to define it. For some the Council closed before addressing such issues as divorced and remarriage etc. Of course, now all of these forward-looking theologians are considered by some as heretics.
     
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  18. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    Yes I deny it. Because I know more about Indian religions than you do. It’s the Abrahamics that infect and contaminate everything... like the Harpies of Ancient Greek stories. They fouled everything they touched.

    The Dharmic religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism have no theological or scriptural problems with homosexuality. It’s the Abrahamic infection in India that has contaminated Indian thought on it.
     
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  19. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Brave pope, seems to fear gay community, but not God. does that mean gay community is his true god?
     
  20. Jack11

    Jack11 Member

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    Obviously your not a Christian my answer is on Christianity and the question is on Christianity not Indian religion. Are we including all religions if we are then I agree you right but Christianity has always been anti homosexual until just recently.Society itself was anti homo sexual on this side of the world.
     
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