Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

[Vouthon]

Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.

He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

The feature-length film, directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, tells the story of Francis’s papacy over the past seven and a half years, covering many of the trips he made before the Covid-19 pandemic and his handling of the sexual abuse scandals that have engulfed the church.

Father James Martin, a prominent Jesuit who has argued that the church should be more welcoming to LGBT people, wrote on Twitter: “Pope Francis’s support for same-sex civil unions is a major step forward in the church’s support of LGBTQ people. It is in keeping with his pastoral approach to LGBT people, including LGBT Catholics, and sends a strong signal to countries where the church has opposed such laws.”

A spokesperson for António Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations and a devout Catholic, said the pope’s comments were “a very positive move”. Guterres had “spoken out very forcefully against homophobia in favour of LGBTQ rights, that people should never be persecuted or discriminated against just for who they love,” they added.

The Ozanne Foundation, which advocates for LGBT equality in religious settings, welcomed the pope’s comments, saying: “This will bring hope to millions of lesbian and gay couples around the world, and will enable them to know that they have the pope’s blessing to be in a family, and indeed to have a right to a family.

“His words of comfort show a deep pastoral understanding of the pain that many LGBT [people] have gone through, and provide a significant challenge to all those who see their faith as a reason to discriminate against LGBT people.”

Since he was elected pope in March 2013, Francis has sought to adopt a more inclusive tone towards LGBT people in his public statements.

Soon after becoming pope, he said in response to a question about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”​

 

[Harel13]

Wow. That's big.

 

[Rival]

I'm alright with the separation of the civil union for these folks from the marriage, given the circumstances we live in. As long as the two spheres (the holy and the mundane, the marriage and the civil union) stay separate, they can do that.

 

[Heyo]

I forgot who said it and I can't find the quote but someone said "We'll have a female pope by 2050 or we won't have a catholic church at all."
It's remarkable that even such a conservative organisation like the RCC is able to adapt.

 

[ReluctantMathematician]

I have a hard time applauding the Catholic Church for half measures on something that should have never even been an issue in the first place.

 

[Altfish]

Catholic Church, .... welcome to the 20th Century

 

[Vouthon]

Wow. That's big.

It is Harel but context is key here: the Catechism of my church already says: "They [LGBT] must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided" (Line 2358).

This papal intervention involves no change to our sacrament of marriage contracted within church (still restricted to male-female), yet it still represents a substantial development because the Pope is effectively telling Catholics: gay people must have legal protections for their relationships in the secular world.

It makes his own stance clear and will I think be welcomed - as it has been already - by LGBT people in many countries with significant Christian populations where gay people are still denied the ability to have their longstanding sexual relationships recognised by law.

Also, this move on the part of the pope to vocally state his position does make it more likely that the German Catholic Synod's proposal for church "blessings" of gay unions contracted outside the church civilly (as opposed to within the church sacramentally) will come in eventually and become the universal norm in the Catholic Church in the future, as I have always supported in point-of-fact:


In new interview, Cardinal Marx speaks on same-sex blessings

Munich, Germany, Dec 24, 2019 / 12:30 pm MT (CNA).- Cardinal Reinhard Marx has expressed the view that homosexual couples can receive a Church blessing “in the sense of a pastoral accompaniment” in the Catholic Church, but not in a manner that resembles marriage.

In an interview with the German magazine Stern, the Archbishop of Munich and Freising was asked, “What do you do when a homosexual couple asks you for an episcopal blessing?”

Marx responded: “I can bless them both in the sense of pastoral accompaniment, we can pray together....

In the magazine interview, Marx also said that he told the [Vatican] Synod on the Family in 2015 that homosexual couples, who are faithful to each other and support each other, should not be “negatively bracketed” by the Church or told by the Church that stable homosexual relationships are considered worthless.​

At the same, Marx affirmed in the interview with Stern that a homosexual union “is not a marriage” in the Catholic sense of the word, and that the sacrament of marriage is between a man and a woman.​

The Catholic Church is intent on being as inclusive as it can be of LGBT people - so that they are valued, with their full persons, as members of our congregation - without changing our doctrine that a sacramental marriage within the ecclesiastical context has to remain male-female.

As an example of how inclusive our socially conservative faith can be without violating its doctrines, consider this video that Cardinal Tagle - Pope Francis's closest confidante in Asia - released for the Catholic church in the Philippines in 2017:

Veritas846.ph on Facebook Watch

"Lazarus Project is a video that shows the reaction of people to five different characters in church: an escort, a gay couple, a homeless man, and a transgender attending Holy Mass. The video was meant to promote acceptance and compassion for marginalized members of society people who are often discriminated against."
​

‘Let us all #Resurrectlove’ | Rev. Fr. Antonio Cecilio T. Pascual

"“AS Jesus has risen, let us also #Resurrectlove in our relationships, our society and our lives.” This is the Easter message of the Catholic Church through its media arms Radio Veritas 846, TV Maria, Catholic Media Network and Caritas Manila in their social experiment video titled “The Lazarus Project”. Launched on Easter Sunday, April 16, the Lazarus Project shows the reaction of people to five different characters who typically would experience judgement, such as an escort, a gay couple, a homeless man and a transgender attending a Holy Mass.

In this video, we want to express the true meaning of Jesus Christ’s resurrection, that God rose from the dead for all of mankind: men, women, even gays. Rich or poor, young or old, in all walks of life"
​

In light of this, it could be possible one day for a gay couple attending a Catholic Church to contract a marriage civilly outside of church at the registry office and then have it 'blessed' as a union by their local priest in a service. But the actual 'sacrament' of marriage inside church will remain male-female.

More traditionalist Catholics will have a problem with 'blessings', however, so we can expect much debate on this in the future.

But Francis has made clear, as @Rival puts it, that he is effectively saying: "I'm alright with the separation of the civil union for these folks from the marriage, given the circumstances we live in. As long as the two spheres (the holy and the mundane, the marriage and the civil union) stay separate, they can do that."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.

He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

The feature-length film, directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, tells the story of Francis’s papacy over the past seven and a half years, covering many of the trips he made before the Covid-19 pandemic and his handling of the sexual abuse scandals that have engulfed the church.

Father James Martin, a prominent Jesuit who has argued that the church should be more welcoming to LGBT people, wrote on Twitter: “Pope Francis’s support for same-sex civil unions is a major step forward in the church’s support of LGBTQ people. It is in keeping with his pastoral approach to LGBT people, including LGBT Catholics, and sends a strong signal to countries where the church has opposed such laws.”

A spokesperson for António Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations and a devout Catholic, said the pope’s comments were “a very positive move”. Guterres had “spoken out very forcefully against homophobia in favour of LGBTQ rights, that people should never be persecuted or discriminated against just for who they love,” they added.

The Ozanne Foundation, which advocates for LGBT equality in religious settings, welcomed the pope’s comments, saying: “This will bring hope to millions of lesbian and gay couples around the world, and will enable them to know that they have the pope’s blessing to be in a family, and indeed to have a right to a family.

“His words of comfort show a deep pastoral understanding of the pain that many LGBT [people] have gone through, and provide a significant challenge to all those who see their faith as a reason to discriminate against LGBT people.”

Since he was elected pope in March 2013, Francis has sought to adopt a more inclusive tone towards LGBT people in his public statements.

Soon after becoming pope, he said in response to a question about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”​

The problem isn't legal unions it's marriage. Catholic gay people cannot receive the sacrament of marriage which is not the same as civil unions. It's good the pope sees union regardless of sex. lgbtq Catholics want a marriage not a union. Mariage by sacrament. One day?

 

[Estro Felino]

Catholic Church, .... welcome to the 20th Century

Well...the RCC has always been modern.
I might be allowed to get married in a Church in few years.

 

[Vouthon]

The problem isn't legal unions it's marriage. Catholic gay people cannot receive the sacrament if marriage which is not the same as civil unions. It's good the pope sees union regardless of sex. lgbtq Catholics want a marriage not a union. One day?

If they contract a marriage outside of the Catholic Church civilly/secularly, it may be possible one day - if the German Synod's proposal is adopted and found to work - for that marital union to be blessed as a 'union' of two persons of the same gender (not as a marriage) in the church after the wedding has taken place secularly.

However, our sacrament of marriage within church will remain limited to 'male-female' for theological reasons rooted in the concept of in persona christi that my church has no liberty to change or develop.

 

[Harel13]

Thus, it could be possible one day for a gay couple attending a Catholic Church to contract a marriage civilly outside of church at the registry office and then have it 'blessed' as a union by their local priest in a service. But the actual 'sacrament' of marriage inside church will remain male-female.

Do you see a future in which a priest could "use" this ruling to have such a marriage himself (since he isn't technically violating church law)?

Also, do you see this causing a schism within the church?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think this would work in Italy but doesn't work in the US. Here separate but equal institutions are not allowed and it's civil marriage, not civil unions, that have the lions share of legal benefit. We are also such a religiously diverse culture that plenty take umbridge with Christianity, or even Abrahamic religions in general, trying to take ownership of the term 'marriage,' when it belongs to lots of faiths and spiritual pathways which don't condemn LGBT behavior.
The best way we could have this work at all is if we took the Canadian model where 'marriage' has no legal/official regulation and unions under law are only recognized as civil unions. But it's a lot of red tape and not high on the agenda.

 

[Nakosis]

Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.

He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

The feature-length film, directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, tells the story of Francis’s papacy over the past seven and a half years, covering many of the trips he made before the Covid-19 pandemic and his handling of the sexual abuse scandals that have engulfed the church.

Father James Martin, a prominent Jesuit who has argued that the church should be more welcoming to LGBT people, wrote on Twitter: “Pope Francis’s support for same-sex civil unions is a major step forward in the church’s support of LGBTQ people. It is in keeping with his pastoral approach to LGBT people, including LGBT Catholics, and sends a strong signal to countries where the church has opposed such laws.”

A spokesperson for António Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations and a devout Catholic, said the pope’s comments were “a very positive move”. Guterres had “spoken out very forcefully against homophobia in favour of LGBTQ rights, that people should never be persecuted or discriminated against just for who they love,” they added.

The Ozanne Foundation, which advocates for LGBT equality in religious settings, welcomed the pope’s comments, saying: “This will bring hope to millions of lesbian and gay couples around the world, and will enable them to know that they have the pope’s blessing to be in a family, and indeed to have a right to a family.

“His words of comfort show a deep pastoral understanding of the pain that many LGBT [people] have gone through, and provide a significant challenge to all those who see their faith as a reason to discriminate against LGBT people.”

Since he was elected pope in March 2013, Francis has sought to adopt a more inclusive tone towards LGBT people in his public statements.

Soon after becoming pope, he said in response to a question about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”​

I assume this is how the Catholic Church has survived. Not by being the voice of God but by adapting to the current culture.

 

[Vouthon]

Do you see a future in which a priest could "use" this ruling to have such a marriage himself (since he isn't technically violating church law)?

Also, do you see this causing a schism within the church?

Good questions Harel:

On the first one, canon law presently defines that priests must be 'celibate' - which means they cannot engage in any sexual activity whatsoever, whether heterosexual or homosexual. So as it stands, I doubt this would provide a 'loophole' in that way.

On your second question, this is always possible - the pope's support for gay unions legally/secularly/societally is already causing disquiet, at the same time as the German Synod of the Catholic Church is seriously considering approving blessings (not sacrament of marriage in church) for gay unions or marriages contracted outside of church civilly.

Its the second one that could really be schism-causing if a future Pope were to attempt to enforce that universally on the church.

 

[Rival]

Its the second one that could really be schism-causing if a future Pope were to attempt to enforce that universally on the church.

Judging by what happened in the Anglican Church, this seems a real possibility at some future time should it happen. Mind you, the CofE has been woolly and watery for some time now; still, there are members that are much more conservative, hence the rift.

 

[The Hammer]

Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

Pope Francis has given his most explicit support to same-sex civil unions in a move that is likely to further enrage his conservative opponents in the Catholic church.

His comments came in an interview in a documentary film, Francesco, which premiered at the Rome film festival on Wednesday.

He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

The feature-length film, directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, tells the story of Francis’s papacy over the past seven and a half years, covering many of the trips he made before the Covid-19 pandemic and his handling of the sexual abuse scandals that have engulfed the church.

Father James Martin, a prominent Jesuit who has argued that the church should be more welcoming to LGBT people, wrote on Twitter: “Pope Francis’s support for same-sex civil unions is a major step forward in the church’s support of LGBTQ people. It is in keeping with his pastoral approach to LGBT people, including LGBT Catholics, and sends a strong signal to countries where the church has opposed such laws.”

A spokesperson for António Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations and a devout Catholic, said the pope’s comments were “a very positive move”. Guterres had “spoken out very forcefully against homophobia in favour of LGBTQ rights, that people should never be persecuted or discriminated against just for who they love,” they added.

The Ozanne Foundation, which advocates for LGBT equality in religious settings, welcomed the pope’s comments, saying: “This will bring hope to millions of lesbian and gay couples around the world, and will enable them to know that they have the pope’s blessing to be in a family, and indeed to have a right to a family.

“His words of comfort show a deep pastoral understanding of the pain that many LGBT [people] have gone through, and provide a significant challenge to all those who see their faith as a reason to discriminate against LGBT people.”

Since he was elected pope in March 2013, Francis has sought to adopt a more inclusive tone towards LGBT people in his public statements.

Soon after becoming pope, he said in response to a question about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”​

Good, I am glad. I think it is about time it starts being endorsed worldwide.

 

[Estro Felino]

If they contract a marriage outside of the Catholic Church civilly/secularly, it may be possible one day - if the German Synod's proposal is adopted and found to work - for that marital union to be blessed as a 'union' of two persons of the same gender (not as a marriage) in the church after the wedding has taken place secularly.

However, our sacrament of marriage within church will remain limited to 'male-female' for theological reasons rooted in the concept of in persona christi that my church has no liberty to change or develop.

Interesting. I agree with that.
Do you believe that MtFs persons who are legally recognized by the State, will be able to get married in a Church...someday?
I am speaking of heterosexual marriage.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If they contract a marriage outside of the Catholic Church civilly/secularly, it may be possible one day - if the German Synod's proposal is adopted and found to work - for that marital union to be blessed as a 'union' of two persons of the same gender (not as a marriage) in the church after the wedding has taken place secularly.

However, our sacrament of marriage within church will remain limited to 'male-female' for theological reasons rooted in the concept of in persona christi that my church has no liberty to change or develop.

Yeah. Some catholics do support civil unions. Legally, it's the same as marriage, but sacramentally it is not. I don't see the pope's acceptance as a step up, though. It's the term marriage (which isn't a christian-owned term) used for people in relation to their sex not their communion that's really the problem.

It is sad, though.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Or LGBT people just can go to a different religion or denomination while the Vatican is playing games. Why should we settle for second class status?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Or LGBT people just can go to a different religion or denomination while the Vatican is playing games. Why should we settle for second class status?

That's exactly what it feels like.