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Pope defrocks ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick over abuse claims

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Cardinal defrocked over abuse allegations

Pope defrocks ex-cardinal Theodore McCarrick over abuse claims

A former Roman Catholic cardinal has been defrocked after historical sexual abuse allegations.

Theodore McCarrick is the most senior Catholic figure to be dismissed from the priesthood in modern times.

US Church officials said allegations he had sexually assaulted a teenager five decades ago were credible.

The Vatican said Pope Francis had ruled Mr McCarrick's expulsion from the clergy as definitive, and would not allow any further appeals against the decision.

'Zero tolerance'


Martin Bashir, BBC religion editor

This is a significant moment in the Roman Catholic Church's effort to address the tide of sex abuse scandals - not least because of the high status this former Cardinal Archbishop once held.

Not only was he the first cleric in more than 100 years to resign from the College of Cardinals, but his removal from the priesthood also confirms Pope Francis' assertion that anyone found guilty of abuse will be treated with zero tolerance, regardless of their status within the church.

The Vatican has said that the investigative process was completed in January and Mr McCarrick was informed of the decision to dismiss him from the priesthood last night. It comes days before Pope Francis will host all the presidents of bishops conferences around the world at a summit in Rome.

The summit is designed to reflect upon the global challenge of abuse and to develop protocols and procedures that could be applied across continents.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Is he in jail now? I'm just wondering what happened besides this, if anything. I couldn't find any news on that.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Is he in jail now? I'm just wondering what happened besides this, if anything. I couldn't find any news on that.

Same, I can't find anything on it.

The story is main news or high up on many websites but none of the ones I've read mention this
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Same, I can't find anything on it.

The story is main news or high up on many websites but none of the ones I've read mention this

I read a couple more articles, and one said he is retired, and living in a friary in rural Kansas. It also said this is just one level below excommunication. I think that would be more appropriate personally. But I always question these cases as to why they aren't turned over to civil authorities more often. Sometimes they are I guess.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm curious as to what you think.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
I read a couple more articles, and one said he is retired, and living in a friary in rural Kansas. It also said this is just one level below excommunication. I think that would be more appropriate personally. But I always question these cases as to why they aren't turned over to civil authorities more often. Sometimes they are I guess.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm curious as to what you think.

He should be given a sentence by a civil court and handed over, I agree.

At the moment, I'm not sure if I can form an opinion on the matter of his living arrangements and where this falls with the civil authorities, until we know more, and precisely how this expulsion from the priesthood may affect all that now.

In terms of excommunication, it is very rarely applied because - contrary to the common understanding - it's actually a "medicinal penalty" intended to invite the person to change behaviour or attitude, repent, and return to full communion. It's not a punitive penalty and has never been used as such in the church's history.

Defrocking is purely punitive and final (i.e. the person will never be readmitted to the clergy).

For that reason, I'm not sure if excommunication would be efficacious in this case. Naturally, I would be happy for a criminal child-abuser to lose every right of Christian society and be deemed an exile, outsider and non-existent.

But again, given the ostensible purpose of the sanction, I'm not sure it would be useful in this given case, since it is done under the assumption that the individual will be aghast and repent, whereas an individual of McCarrick's ilk seems to be beyond redemption and regardless, he needs punishment for his crimes so that justice be served for his victims.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He should be given a sentence by a civil court and handed over, I agree.

At the moment, I'm not sure if I can form an opinion on the matter of his living arrangements and where this falls with the civil authorities, until we know more, and precisely how this expulsion from the priesthood may affect all that now.

In terms of excommunication, it is very rarely applied because - contrary to the common understanding - it's actually a "medicinal penalty" intended to invite the person to change behaviour or attitude, repent, and return to full communion. It's not a punitive penalty and has never been used as such in the church's history.

Defrocking is purely punitive and final (i.e. the person will never be readmitted to the clergy).

For that reason, I'm not sure if excommunication would be efficacious in this case. Naturally, I would be happy for a criminal child-abuser to lose every right of Christian society and be deemed an exile, outsider and non-existent, as excommunication would do.

But again, given the ostensible purpose of the sanction, I'm not sure it would be useful in this given case, since it is done under the assumption that the individual will be aghast and repent, whereas an individual of McCarrick's ilk seems to be beyond redemption and regardless, he needs punishment for his crimes so that justice be served for his victims.
Go, Frankie, go!

Despite the massive opposition built into the bureaucracy any pope inherits, he's prepared to say out loud the problems that are true.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
He is probably beyond the statute of limitations for legal procedures

Yes, that's a problem.

Elapse of time doesn't matter for a church tribunal or penalty but it could be a serious hurdle, potentially, for a civil one - as is sometimes, sadly, the case in historic sex abuse cases.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We can't change the past, but we can change the future. Actions by religious authorities of all ilks affect the future. Recently, the deplorable action of nun rape has come to light both in Asia, and in Latin America. Immediate suspension, immediate contact of civil authorities upon information, and then subsequent dismissal if found guilty, would aid in preventing future stuff I think. That and a more adequate screening process, and a reduction of scenarios where it's more possible.

The Catholic Church at least has an hierarchial authority system to help. Groups where it's the leader doing the abuse are far harder to change I think.

I think it's all changing, albeit too slow for most peoples' comfort.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In the news.....
Pope Refuses Resignation of Cardinal Convicted of Covering Up Sex Abuse
ROME—Pope Francis declined to accept the resignation of a French
cardinal convicted of covering up sexual abuse, the Vatican said on
Tuesday, a decision that drew fire from victims and their advocates in
France and abroad.

Cardinal Philippe Barbarin of Lyon had offered to step down in a private
meeting with the pontiff on Monday.

The cardinal issued a statement similar to the Vatican’s on Tuesday,
adding that the pope had cited the “presumption of [the cardinal’s]
innocence” in declining to accept his resignation.

This month, Cardinal Barbarin became the highest-ranking Catholic
Church official ever to be convicted of covering up sexual abuse, in
the latest chapter of the church’s long-running abuse scandal.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In the news.....
Pope Refuses Resignation of Cardinal Convicted of Covering Up Sex Abuse
ROME—Pope Francis declined to accept the resignation of a French
cardinal convicted of covering up sexual abuse, the Vatican said on
Tuesday, a decision that drew fire from victims and their advocates in
France and abroad.

Cardinal Philippe Barbarin of Lyon had offered to step down in a private
meeting with the pontiff on Monday.

The cardinal issued a statement similar to the Vatican’s on Tuesday,
adding that the pope had cited the “presumption of [the cardinal’s]
innocence” in declining to accept his resignation.

This month, Cardinal Barbarin became the highest-ranking Catholic
Church official ever to be convicted of covering up sexual abuse, in
the latest chapter of the church’s long-running abuse scandal.

That's absurd. All talk and no action.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Aye, presuming innocence after being convicted in court.
I find it rather absurd, and unfortunately am not surprised. The 'poor' cardinal was totally admitting 'I don't deserve this' trying to do what's right, and the Pope says no. He is clearly unfit for leadership. Gosh, I'm glad I'm not a Catholic.

I think these guys should be excommunicated.
 
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