Pop Sufism

[Gaura Priya]

I absolutely hate that Sufism has become so pop-ish in the West here. People consider it non-Islamic (except the Muslims), but I sincerely believe that you can not have Sufi spirituality without Islam. They are one and the same to me!

I was reading a little bit today about how the two fundamental parts of Sufism is a) La Ilaha Il'Allah and b) Muhammadur-rasulillah. The first implies the Unity of Being, the Unity of Essence, a tawhid that is immanent and transcendent. And the second one is the Unity in Multiplicity, the Universal Man, or Universal Archetype, through which we can understand the Divine.

It definitely gives me new understanding of the Prophet, that's for sure.

The people who separate Sufism from Islam are like those who separate Yoga from Hinduism. It's culturally insensitive!

 

[ConfusedKuri]

What exactly is pop-sufism? I have never seen a pop-sufi?

 

[Onkara]

I absolutely hate that Sufism has become so pop-ish in the West here. People consider it non-Islamic (except the Muslims), but I sincerely believe that you can not have Sufi spirituality without Islam. They are one and the same to me!

I was reading a little bit today about how the two fundamental parts of Sufism is a) La Ilaha Il'Allah and b) Muhammadur-rasulillah. The first implies the Unity of Being, the Unity of Essence, a tawhid that is immanent and transcendent. And the second one is the Unity in Multiplicity, the Universal Man, or Universal Archetype, through which we can understand the Divine.

It definitely gives me new understanding of the Prophet, that's for sure.

The people who separate Sufism from Islam are like those who separate Yoga from Hinduism. It's culturally insensitive!

What west? Keep walking west and you end up back where you began, the world is one as so is God one.

The only 'problem' here is thinking things should be different to how God willed them or that that religion is owned by someone. Or that the way we would prefer things to be justifies our hatred.

It is precisely this thinking which breeds hate and violence.

 

[fenrisx]

What west? Keep walking west and you end up back where you began, the world is one as so is God one.

The only 'problem' here is thinking things should be different to how God willed them or that that religion is owned by someone. Or that the way we would prefer things to be justifies our hatred.

It is precisely this thinking which breeds hate and violence.

okay I'll bite. I'm American and Western by proxy, raised protestant and an initiated sufi. Am I a pop sufi? Explain your definition if you would.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I do believe that Sufism must be learned by a pir, and initiation is part of the process.

When I speak of pop Sufism, I refer to how the yoga culture has been taken amongst modern people and added in new age elements. They also do so with Rumi's poetry, and ignore Sufism's origins or its foundation through Islamic dhikr.

Having Western people mis-use the words avatar, chakras, and blending together hatha yoga with new age practices, beliefs and paraphernalia into a product is, to me, commercialisation of yoga, and I unfortunately see the same with Sufism. I see no problem too much with Universal Sufism, or Islamic Sufism at all.

I just dislike the watering-down and commercialisation of it. I dislike the phenomenon as much as I dislike the Prayer of Jabez for a reason.

 

[fenrisx]

I do believe that Sufism must be learned by a pir, and initiation is part of the process.

When I speak of pop Sufism, I refer to how the yoga culture has been taken amongst modern people and added in new age elements. They also do so with Rumi's poetry, and ignore Sufism's origins or its foundation through Islamic dhikr.

Having Western people mis-use the words avatar, chakras, and blending together hatha yoga with new age practices, beliefs and paraphernalia into a product is, to me, commercialisation of yoga, and I unfortunately see the same with Sufism. I see no problem too much with Universal Sufism, or Islamic Sufism at all.

I just dislike the watering-down and commercialisation of it. I dislike the phenomenon as much as I dislike the Prayer of Jabez for a reason.

I was initiated by a PIR of the Chisti lineage and do my Dhikr daily thanks, so maybe you refer to something other than my experience.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I was initiated by a PIR of the Chisti lineage and do my Dhikr daily thanks, so maybe you refer to something other than my experience.

I'm referring to New Agers who use Sufi spirituality and water it down. We have a large New-Agey hippy population in Vancouver that hang around Commercial Drive and Kitsilano here.

 

[nameless]

if islam is all about quran, and quran is the latest edition truth book by god (thus made earlier teachings invalid), then there is no sense in claiming sufism comes under islam, since sufism existed before muhammad.

 

[nameless]

They also do so with Rumi's poetry, and ignore Sufism's origins or its foundation through Islamic dhikr.

"I am neither Christian, nor Jew, nor Gabr, nor Moslem." - Rumi

I absolutely hate that Sufism has become so pop-ish in the West here.

I am not of the East, nor of the West, nor of the land, nor of the sea;" - Rumi

And it is not just westerners who say sufism is not islam ..... Is sufism part of Islam?

 

[Onkara]

okay I'll bite. I'm American and Western by proxy, raised protestant and an initiated sufi. Am I a pop sufi? Explain your definition if you would.

Hello Fenrisx
I am not out to define or limit anyone, nor bait people into debate My point here is a reflection on the OP in line within the ideas presented in this directory.

My point is to leave judging people to Allah and to consider the world as one, where west and east are labels we could avoid (Nameless provides excellent quotes).

Peace.

 

[UmmSqueakster]

There are several strains of sufism.

There is the new agey sufism that came to the west, usually from the indian subcontient, that holds that sufism is something separate from islam and one doesn't need to be a muslim in order to be a sufi.

And, there is there is the sufism that is tasawwuf, an islamic science. For these sufis, tasawwuf cannot be separated from islam. One must be muslim in order to be sufi.

Tasawwuf of the later variety is well explained by the likes of Sh. Zulfiqar Ahmad (db) and Sh. Nuh Keller.

To quote Junayd (ra)

Whoever does not memorize the Qur’an and write hadith is not fit to be followed in this matter. For our science (tasawwuf) is controlled by the Book and the Sunna.


I've come across many sufis who began their lives as the former, and eventually found that in order to truly find Allah (swt), they needed to be muslim. The book Rumi and Islam is written by one of these sufis. And, many of the members of the Shadhiliyya order under Sidi Muhammad began their lives as universalistic sufis, but converted to islam when they found Sidi.

 

[fenrisx]

Hello Fenrisx
I am not out to define or limit anyone, nor bait people into debate My point here is a reflection on the OP in line within the ideas presented in this directory.

My point is to leave judging people to Allah and to consider the world as one, where west and east are labels we could avoid (Nameless provides excellent quotes).

Peace.

thats the right answer bud, its not about labels.... unity grows deeper from there

 

[Onkara]

thats the right answer bud, its not about labels.... unity grows deeper from there

Welcome to the forums, by the way. I hope you find time to teach us more of Sufism.

 

[no-body]

I'm referring to New Agers who use Sufi spirituality and water it down. We have a large New-Agey hippy population in Vancouver that hang around Commercial Drive and Kitsilano here.

Hi, I'm one of those new age hippy type people who use part of Sufism in their beliefs.

I mean no disrespect of Islam or Sufism, I just find the mystical part of Islam to be fascinating. Not so much the fundamentalist part, many westerners feel this way, so you can see how people would want to deny the Islam part with it's fundamentalist connotations.

Not trying to start a debate or argue but I don't see how it's annoying to you since you are part of UU. You would be lucky to find anyone in the west who has even heard the word Sufism.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Hi, I'm one of those new age hippy type people who use part of Sufism in their beliefs.

I mean no disrespect of Islam or Sufism, I just find the mystical part of Islam to be fascinating. Not so much the fundamentalist part, many westerners feel this way, so you can see how people would want to deny the Islam part with it's fundamentalist connotations.

Not trying to start a debate or argue but I don't see how it's annoying to you since you are part of UU. You would be lucky to find anyone in the west who has even heard the word Sufism.

Being part of Unitarian Universalism is tolerance and respect... but as our youth minister told me, we're still free to make commentary.

I don't find it annoying as just cringe-worthy. There is a difference between philosophically accepting Sufism as a beautiful part of Islam, and appreciating its teachings, while another point is taking Sufism to be whole in itself, complete without guidance from the Qur'an. I may appreciate it, but I am not going to call myself a Sufi if I am unfamiliar with the teachings and how they are intimately connected with Qur'anic revelation.

As much as I love choosing and picking spiritual paths, I also believe that we should respect proper religious appropriation.

As one of the other posters said, Sufism is not merely 'mysticism' but it is also a 'science.' It is a philosophy in all, that is part and parcel of the teachings of Islam. i am biased because I am partial to the Qur'an, and personally believe that Muhammad the Prophet was a religious liberal than what most Muslims make him to be...

Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the revealer of Sufism to all people. He is the first revealed and known Sufi, and he is the Universal Prototype. Without La ilaha il'allah, Muhammadur-rasulillah, the Oneness of Essence, and Oneness in Multiplicity cannot be understood.

By the way, Sufism is well known in the spiritual community here in British Columbia, Canada, and you can find it in the bookshelf at our popular Chapters branches, or in used book stores around Metro Vancouver. I am speaking from my own experiences.

If we would all understand the mysticism found hidden in the pages of the Qur'an, we would cease to speak more.

 

[Gaura Priya]

What exactly is pop-sufism? I have never seen a pop-sufi?

You know, the ones you lick before it melts and leaves a colour in your mouth.

 

[no-body]

Being part of Unitarian Universalism is tolerance and respect... but as our youth minister told me, we're still free to make commentary.

I don't find it annoying as just cringe-worthy.

Yeah, but pretty much everything new-age is cringe-worthy.

There is a difference between philosophically accepting Sufism as a beautiful part of Islam, and appreciating its teachings, while another point is taking Sufism to be whole in itself, complete without guidance from the Qur'an. I may appreciate it, but I am not going to call myself a Sufi if I am unfamiliar with the teachings and how they are intimately connected with Qur'anic revelation.

As much as I love choosing and picking spiritual paths, I also believe that we should respect proper religious appropriation.

As one of the other posters said, Sufism is not merely 'mysticism' but it is also a 'science.' It is a philosophy in all, that is part and parcel of the teachings of Islam. i am biased because I am partial to the Qur'an, and personally believe that Muhammad the Prophet was a religious liberal than what most Muslims make him to be...

Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the revealer of Sufism to all people. He is the first revealed and known Sufi, and he is the Universal Prototype. Without La ilaha il'allah, Muhammadur-rasulillah, the Oneness of Essence, and Oneness in Multiplicity cannot be understood.

By the way, Sufism is well known in the spiritual community here in British Columbia, Canada, and you can find it in the bookshelf at our popular Chapters branches, or in used book stores around Metro Vancouver. I am speaking from my own experiences.

If we would all understand the mysticism found hidden in the pages of the Qur'an, we would cease to speak more.

Oh I agree that Sufism is tied inexorably with Islam and there should be a better attempt at explaining and acknowledging this aspect, I was just commenting on why westerners would want to remove the cultural and Islamic ties to Sufism. I find it interesting but of no personal use to my spirituality, so I'll be quiet now.

 

[fenrisx]

Welcome to the forums, by the way. I hope you find time to teach us more of Sufism.

What I've been exposed to thus far would be that truth is the one goal, and finding it in the heart, but as its late and I've had the long day I'll pause there so my weariness doesnt cause typing to suffer. I'll start a thread about during the wee though. Fair?

 

[ConfusedKuri]

I was initiated by a PIR of the Chisti lineage and do my Dhikr daily thanks, so maybe you refer to something other than my experience.

Oh you belong to the Chishtiyya? That's great! I read so much about some of their Sheikhs! I really hope you can tell me a bit more, I did not even know there were Chishti Sheikhs in the West, I'm currently searching for a Sheikh belonging to that order. Youc an really be proud of yourself

 

[fenrisx]

Oh you belong to the Chishtiyya? That's great! I read so much about some of their Sheikhs! I really hope you can tell me a bit more, I did not even know there were Chishti Sheikhs in the West, I'm currently searching for a Sheikh belonging to that order. Youc an really be proud of yourself

Actually pride is one of the things that you work to overcome, lol. THe Pir who initated me is Third Generation American, they are here. You should find a local center of the Sufi Order International, International Sufi Movement or the Runiat (Spelling?), they have centers in several locals and all are Western pieces of the Chisti lineage. When I have enough time to speak more to my own experience I will share in different thread.