polytheism and monotheism

[syo]

how many gods are there? one or many? how many gods does it need to create nature?

 

[Sanzbir]

By which definition of "god"??

 

[syo]

By which definition of "god"??

god the creator of the universe. the immortal, all-powerful, all-knowable being.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

how many gods are there? one or many? how many gods does it need to create nature?

I've never seen any reason to conclude that any gods at all are needed to create nature.

However, if we take as given the existence of at least one god, I also have no reason to limit the number of gods to one.

 

[Jainarayan]

god the creator of the universe. the immortal, all-powerful, all-knowable being.

It seems like you answered your own question.

 

[syo]

I've never seen any reason to conclude that any gods at all are needed to create nature.

However, if we take as given the existence of at least one god, I also have no reason to limit the number of gods to one.

i should have add the ''no god'' option to create nature.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

god the creator of the universe. the immortal, all-powerful, all-knowable being.

Why would all those attributes necessarily go together?

Or are you saying that if, for instance, we discoveredthat the universe was crrstedby a being that was all-powerful and all-knowing but not immortal, you would say it wasn't a god?

 

[Sanzbir]

god the creator of the universe. the immortal, all-powerful, all-knowable being.

So if we use that definition, only monotheism or atheism is possible (and to note, this is not the definition of a "god" that most polytheists use, for the reason of the problem described). The number of beings that you describe here must be either one or zero.

The reason is the "all-powerful" aspect. In other words: if they will something, it happens. As a thought experiment, say we have two "all-powerful" beings. "God A" and "God B".

Say there is a marble. God A wills it that the marble should move two inches to the right. God B simply wills that the marble never moves.

So what happens to the marble??

If the marble moves two inches to the right, then God B is not all-powerful since His Will is be done.

If the marble does not move, then God A is not all-powerful since His Will is not done.

If the marble does anything else like, for instance, move one inch to the right, then neither being is all powerful as neither of their Wills have been done.

Thus: There can only ever be one or zero all powerful entities. There cannot be more than one. Basically because if two beings have the power to do anything they will, and they will opposing things, a paradox occurs.

From experience, someone usually comes along to try to counter my point by saying "maybe there are two all-powerful beings that never disagree". In which case my preemptive counterargument to that counterargument is that if the "all-powerful" beings cannot disagree, then they are certainly not "all-powerful" then are they?? As there is something they cannot do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

i should have add the ''no god'' option to create nature.

Also fractional gods, if you want to cover all bases.

 

[syo]

It seems like you answered your own question.

one god can have all these attributes. but why polytheism exist? don't many gods have part in nature?

 

[Jumi]

how many gods are there? one or many?

One to my knowledge.

how many gods does it need to create nature?

None.

 

[Quintessence]

There are as many gods as an individual wants to recognize. In my view, deification is a human activity, and humans get to choose what they deify. If a human deifies only one thing in the grand landscape of reality, sure. If a human deifies a couple things in the grand landscape of reality, okay. Twelve? Several thousand? None? All of those are valid options.

 

[syo]

So if we use that definition, only monotheism or atheism is possible (and to note, this is not the definition of a "god" that most polytheists use, for the reason of the problem described). The number of beings that you describe here must be either one or zero.

The reason is the "all-powerful" aspect. In other words: if they will something, it happens. As a thought experiment, say we have two "all-powerful" beings. "God A" and "God B".

Say there is a marble. God A wills it that the marble should move two inches to the right. God B simply wills that the marble never moves.

So what happens to the marble??

If the marble moves two inches to the right, then God B is not all-powerful since His Will is be done.

If the marble does not move, then God A is not all-powerful since His Will is not done.

If the marble does anything else like, for instance, move one inch to the right, then neither being is all powerful as neither of their Wills have been done.

Thus: There can only ever be one or zero all powerful entities. There cannot be more than one. Basically because if two beings have the power to do anything they will, and they will opposing things, a paradox occurs.

From experience, someone usually comes along to try to counter my point by saying "maybe there are two all-powerful beings that never disagree". In which case my preemptive counterargument to that counterargument is that if the "all-powerful" beings cannot disagree, then they are certainly not "all-powerful" then are they?? As there is something they cannot do.

all-powerful limits the gods to one or none. so about a polytheist pantheon, gods are powerful but not all-powerful, is that it?

 

[syo]

One to my knowledge.


None.

no god to create nature? then what does the god do?

 

[Sanzbir]

all-powerful limits the gods to one or none. so about a polytheist pantheon, gods are powerful but not all-powerful, is that it?

Typically yes. Or there is one "all-powerful" entity and a host of less powerful ones. It depends on the pantheon.

 

[syo]

Why would all those attributes necessarily go together?

Or are you saying that if, for instance, we discoveredthat the universe was crrstedby a being that was all-powerful and all-knowing but not immortal, you would say it wasn't a god?

i use these attributes because they are the most common in religions.

 

[Jumi]

no god to create nature?

Not needed, that doesn't mean it's not a possibility that nature was somehow created.

then what does the god do?

What does God do? Not something we can understand with words at least.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

all-powerful limits the gods to one or none. so about a polytheist pantheon, gods are powerful but not all-powerful, is that it?

If a god can't exist alongside another omnipotent god, then that's something the god can't do, and therefore that god isn't all-powerful.

If a god can do everything, then it can get along with other gods, since "getting along with other gods" is part of "everything."

 

[syo]

Not needed, that doesn't mean it's not a possibility that nature was somehow created.


What does God do? Not something we can understand with words at least.

i think you describe a deist god, who doesn't intervene.

 

[Jumi]

i think you describe a deist god, who doesn't intervene.

Not deism. Deists believe God created the universe and stopped doing something after that.