Dr. Nosophoros said:
This is a tough one for me, I did not support the war and "finishing" what some started isn't really a good option either. This wasn't about WMD's, "Freeing" Iraqis or some other humanitarian mission, this was the destruction of a leader of a country that we helped put in power in the first place.
Nothing new here. More liberal hogwash. Yes, we supported Saddam during his war with Iran, after the Iranians had stormed our embassy and taken hostage or killed United States citizens. Additionally Iran was and is the chief sponsor of glogal terrorism. To say that we are hypocrites for doing what was in our best interest at the time, shows quite plainly the nearsightedness of the liberal mentality. Thank you for that.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
The coming to power of the baathists was said by the CIA to be "their greatest coup" Saddam came years later and our government helped him get materials and chemicals for WMD's in their war against Iran while we looked the other way for the most part.
I don't know where you are getting your bull from, but it is really thick, really smelly and hardly believable. You must sight sources if you want anyone to take seriously such allegations. And please don't sight a Michael Moore movie as your evidence.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
I think the main problem was that the U.S. could not control him, sort of like the same situation when we supported the Diem government in Vietnam and then wanted him dead when he was seen as uncontrollable, both were ruthless dictators we helped put in power and both were tolerated when it served our purposes.
Yeah, Diem was a jerk in a puppet regime set up by our country. I fail to see how you can equate this as any kind of proof for the US putting Saddam in power. Please show evidence.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
To me it's the same faulty foreign policy that has been followed for years, we never seem to learn. Civilians are better repressed or dead if it serves our political purposes, but if we can't control the person that we use to kill and repress others for our purposes, we kill or remove them- it's a never ending cycle of stupidity that probably won't change anytime soon.
Wow, that was truly amazing. How you went from, the US put Saddam in power and now we don't like him, to, civilians are better dead if it serves our purposes, without any proof or reference, is amazing. I am just surprised you didn't throw us in as being responsible for the holocaust, Noriega, the drug cartels and the creation of AIDS too.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
There are those that will say that the "Treaty or Versailles" was one of the main reasons Hitler came to power through the subjugation of Germany by other greedy nations. Their greed fertilized the soil to allow Hitler to do what he did, I myself believe it was a large factor in his rise (up for debate), but as the "Treaty of Versailles" may have been a large contributor to Adolph Hitlers rise to power I think it could also be reasonably said that the CIA's deep involvement in the Baathist coup in Iraq which later allowed Saddam to come to power can also be to blame, history does repeat itself, just in different ways.
Okay, nevermind, you did try to tie in Hitler and the holocaust. I'm getting more and more impressed. This is truly amazing. Again, where is your proof that the CIA had anything to do with the baathist rise to power in Iraq? Real proof.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
I think another major thing we need to look at, and I mean seriously look at, is the extent we have been lied to or the government has attempted to lie to us and our medias seeming complacency in spreading this propaganda to the masses to garner support and it's continuing deceptions, sometimes the deception is silence to that which may be seen as harmful to the "cause". The tools to gain support is jingoism and symbolism that can be used to manipulate emotion (taught mentalities don't hurt either)these are the deceptions behind which these cowards hide to get and keep support for what they wish to achieve, the sheep follow and bleat. The memory and symbolism of 9/11 was used to help support the war effort and is still being used to manipulate emotions and thought which causes either support for or apathy towards that which overall destroys the fabric of this country. A perfect example (though this has little to do with Iraq) was the flag burning issue.
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[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]So, do you not believe that those who died in 9/11 deserve remembering? Do you not believe that their murders count for something and should be remembered in the future? Do you not believe that this horrible tragedy should be used as our motivation to war against those terrorists that are still out there? What exactly is your point? It seems that you are upset that people use the event to help fight the cause of defending our country and stopping the global threat of terrorism.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
California Congressmen Randy Cunningham (R):
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the world trade center" "Ask them and they will tell you- pass this ammendment"
How long will 9/11 be milked for it's emotional power to manipulate, how long will it's memory and imagery be used as an excuse and leverage by some?- as long as enough people let them.
IT was an emotional event that no one should ever forget for its effect on how we look at ourselves in the world and how some in the world hate us and everything that we stand for. I think it should be remembered for a very long time and Ithink everytime it is remembered that we should shed a tear or two in remembrance of those who where murdered. Personally, I am tired of those who would try to make me feel guilty for wanting to remeber them and act to prevent such tragedies again. To me, that is cruel cowardess. The kind of person who would stand behind the dead and pretend not to see them, is blind to the reality of our world.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
I'm supposed to vote, but I think overall this whole thing is a big s#*t sandwich that we all have to take a bite of made by someone else for other purposes than which they say it was made for and people are still dying because of it, I'll vote later but I don't think we have much choice but to stay, we helped make the mess, so we should try to clean it up but I don't think we will ever truly learn from it, unfortunately.
Dr. Nosophoros said:
Dr. Nosophoros said:
Oh no, not the oil again. Please, will you guys geet off of this made up idea that Bush did it for the oil? Please see previous thread about the lack of evidence for this and start using some other unreasonable excuse, because I am getting tired of this one. Or wait, are you saying he did it for his Daddy? That's one of my varorite fairy tales.
So, you think that we shoudl stay and fix our mess? How noble of you. Personally, I supported the war, whether their were WMD's or not. Okay, so he didn't have them. He acted like a guilty person every time inspectors tried to look at areas of iterest. HE was totally uncooperative with everyone. His recent history shows that he and his sons enjoy killing and raping people. He had gassed thousand of kurds in the north. There are thousands of mass graves for those he killed indiscrimenately. He invaded Kuwait and killed thousands there (innocents there as well, you should hear some of the stories). He was a very, very bad man and the world is better off without him. Like it or not, this is why he deserved to go. We take the country and the Fedayeen Sadam dress in civilian attire, take pot shots from behind innocent women and children, get trained to be terrorists, and suddenly just about everybody looses their resolve to fight and end this thing. That, is cowardly. Where there WMD? At the time of the invasion, no. Could there have been? Absolutely. Did Saddam give us any reason not to believe that he was clean? No. I really don't know what everyone is so upset about? He is gone, and terrorists are coming to Iraq to be taken out by the finest fighting force in the world. You may not like the way it is going, but we were right to go in there in the beginning, and we are right to stay and finish the job. Period. To tuck your tail and run because you don't like the way things are going, is very cowardly. I feel sorry for that mentality.
