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Featured Poll: Signs of eloquence of Quran

Discussion in 'Quranic Debates' started by Link, Aug 2, 2022.

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  1. Perfectly calculated words that can only be from God

    18.8%
  2. Beyond human calculated words, but possibly from misguided higher intelligent beings

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Capable of a human that knows eloquence at a very high level that very little reach

    6.3%
  4. One human can't do it but it's capable of many humans who have advance knowledge of eloquence

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Perfectly calculated words capable of only God or his exalted chosen ones

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. At a level capable of any human as it's not eloquent at all

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. At a level many humans can do, as it's eloquent, but not to a level only a few can reach

    31.3%
  8. I don't know

    43.8%
  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Sorry that was my bad.
     
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  2. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    A lot, most even, is lost in translation. However, there are features of eloquence you can see even in translations. The thread I did, I showed, why words were perfectly placed and that doesn't need you to know Arabic. Of course, the Arabic you can see the sound and how it rhymes so that would be part of it, but aside from that, you can see there is high wisdom and calculated speech in some of the proofs I offered.

    The Quran is meant for the whole world, so it will have features that make even in the translations provided they weren't totally off.
     
  3. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Shakespeare has had some "hoax" writing attributed to him, and it takes experts who know history and other things to separate but some of them are on par or even greater then his writings and mimic his style, but they are not his.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No of course not. It's based on a lot of scholarship. Not just some "opinion" the way you are depicting an opinion to be.

    In traditional Islam, an opinion is given only after more than half a decade of studying. ;)
     
  5. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Imru al Qais is considered the father of Arabic poetry,there are the the like of Francis Bacon and Marlowe who may even be the authors of the originals of some of Shakespeare’s work,some say al Quais made his into the Quran.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Oh yes. Al Mathaani for example can be seen in any translation. But the usages of words like Kaana, etc cannot be seen in English or any other translation for that matter unless someone has the mind to understand and think openly. Very few people have the ability to empathise with another language. They tend to think from the language they know. Like English.
     
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    But they are polls apart.
     
  8. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    The historical reports about this say some small snippet of his poetry appears exactly the same in the Quran. Anyways, anyone can make poetry, snip a piece of Quran, put in it, and claim historically Quran copied it, which is what I believe some enemies of Islam tried to do with this historical report.
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Bro. I know some parts by heart. And I know what people say. It's stupid.

    You know, I write a book today, and some parts in it are just like a book you wrote a year ago. E.g. You used the sentence "he walked dow the road", and I also used the same sentence "he walked down the road", does that mean one is a copy of another? ;)

    Fadhalla al azara yarthameenu bilahmihaa
    washahmin kahuzzaabi adhdhamakshi al mafaththali

    None of the Qur'anic features of Balagha are there in Al Kinds poem. None. I mean it Link. Let me say it again. "None".
     
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  10. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I agree.
     
  11. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    For a universal religion that has been sent down with a clear message that’s an awful long time,of course you have to learn Classical Arabic first,doesn’t sound too awesome to me.
     
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  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Nah. That script is irrelevant to the topic you see?

    By the way, have you ever read Imrul Qais?
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    There is more to Quran then it's eloquence. It has arguments for the true religion, from God to Prophets and Messengers, to other things about it, to it's prohibitions and laws.

    I made a thread for example how Quran argues for the abstract religion to single out the instance of it (Currently) as the only true religion.

    This in theory does not matter how eloquent or not eloquent the message is, if the arguments are sound, then the abstract religion proven through these proofs would have an instance in real time, and only one instance possible.

    So there is more then one way to know it's true.

    The lives of Ahlulbayt (a) and their justice and struggle against evil, is another way, to know Islam is true.
     
  14. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Al Qais poetry before the Quran?.
     
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  15. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Sure, but is the "historical" reports about it and the "snip" of those four lines from Quran, before Quran?
     
  16. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Yes I have,English translation and not the worse I’ve ever read or best,.
     
  17. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Salam

    @England my lionheart I will give you an example. The parable of light in Quran, is an argument for the true religion as well. If anyone connects to the light of God, they will see the truth and understand the secret of Nubuwa, Resalah and Welayat.

    This does not even need you know be literate to do.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    That's great. So why do you believe some of them crept into the Qur'an? Which specific verses, and why do they have to be this way? What features of the so called "Eloquence" do both books have?

    Thanks.
     
  19. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    So we’ve gone from the “eloquence of the Quran” to the family of Muhammed,im sorry I don’t see any sound arguments that prove anything.
     
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  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    According to legend, yes. Maybe about a century before the Qur'an.
     
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