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Poll: Opposition to religions (the organised kind) - why you might be opposed?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mock Turtle, May 23, 2020.

?
  1. Often cause division and/or conflict within and between communities

  2. Often purloins morality, as if such wouldn't or didn't exist without the particular faith

  3. Often have dogma that is harmful (punishments, for example) or meaningless in modern societies

  4. Are often so tied to the past as to resist change for the better

  5. Can be arrogant to non-believers or towards those of another faith

  6. Might have ludicrous expectations regarding the future

  7. Might interpret events through their belief rather than more impartially

  8. Might refute reasonable explanations (often coming from science) over religious ones

  9. Might intentionally or unintentionally appropriate the rights of others (children, for example)

  10. Might give a deceptive meaning/purpose to one's life - as in direction and/or beliefs

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
    Often the quickest path from ignorance to arrogance
    With so many threads targeting atheists, here is one to show how you (as a non-believer) might feel, that is, opposed in the sense of 'in principle' rather than actively being oppositional or aggressive towards any particular religious belief - which is my position - having nothing in particular against any specific one but rather against many of them. And of course some or even most of these might not or will not apply to all such beliefs. This isn't about being divisive, but more about why many might not be so supportive of religious beliefs. So trying to see what most non-believers tend to see as the most important issues.

    You might also add any reasons that should be included here that tend to divide the believers from the non-believers - the limit for options unfortunately truncated some of my options. :oops: Such that we can better understand where any conflicts are likely to arise, although it usually is self-evident.

    And of course someone is entirely welcome to post a poll as to why anyone would believe in religion, as long as such included all rather than just being specific.
     
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  2. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    The best poll so far IMO. I ticked all the boxes.

    My main problems with certain religions are:

    - They make truth claims which are just opinion and enforce beliefs based off that shaky foundation on others.

    - They expect children to follow their beliefs, an example in one case is when children will be forced not to get blood transfusion in a dire medical situation when they might need it, thus resulting in the unnecessary deaths of children. Another is certain FLDS cults which in which minors are forced to marry the cult leaders, such as in the Kirkland Cult.

    - People are often held at figurative gunpoint because there are consequences to leaving certain religions such as all the family shunning the person or being killed.

    - The pursuit of ignorance which is encouraged by certain groups to keep them ignorant, such as those who discourage secular education or don't want members to speak to those who have left the group or criticize the group because they do not want members to know their reasons.

    - They assume the motives of non believers and use the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

    There are many other things, but all the above are cause by indoctrination, which I am against, because it contradicts critical thinking. These types of views are often detrimental to society and deprives the followers of critical thinking skills, and often believers have to lie to themselves and others, which in my view isn't living life to its fullest or living in honesty with yourself. In fact a member might still be part of a group even though they don't like it or agree with it eternally, because they believe that the group is the only access to salvation.

    I am actively against viewpoints that claim that they are true and everybody else should believe them, especially if the group is promoting and forcing others to follow that view against their will. I am pretty cool with beliefs that keep to themselves because i enjoy engaging with such people as their views don't try to negatively effect me.

    I find myself becoming more aggressive towards religions I don't like as classified above because they want to deceive people and manipulate them by enslaving them to the groups desires.
     
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  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    There was only one box to tick: infringement on rights of others.

    A believer can be as wrong, as arrogant, as backwards or as crazy as s/he wants to. All those are reasons for debate but only when their actions infringe on my rights or the rights of others, I will oppose them other than philosophical.
     
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  4. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    I selected three of the choices (and questioning my selection of at least one of them); the three that I think may have an impact on the livelihood of others.

    As I see it, in general, people spend entirely to much time concerning themselves with what others think or believe, believers and non-believers alike. I think that time would be much better spent worrying about oneself. One should make sure one's own house is in order before one starts worrying about cleaning up the houses of others.

    If one wants to learn about what another believes (or doesn't believe), then one should just ask questions and accept the responses if it has no significant impact on one's own livelihood.

    If one want's to be opposed to another's views, that's fine, but if another's views don't affect one's life directly, the one should keep their opposition to one's self.
     
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  5. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    Most humans share plenty of those aspects without including religion unfortunately, even many atheists.
     
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  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Religions don't do any of the things on your list. People do them in the name of their various religions, as well as in the name of all sorts of other ideological justifications. too.

    It's like someone putting up a sign that says "Dump Toxic Waste Here", and then blaming the sign for the toxic mess that results.
     
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  7. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It would have been nice if there was something in that poll that i couldn't select. As it is, i have selected all because i have experience all from religious people. In some cases its the religion driving the religious, in others it seems to be individual or group interpretation.
     
  8. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    spiritual anti-theist : )
    A common semantic dodge. If you think this is a useful way to characterize religion, then to be consistent you must also agree that religion has absolutely no benefits, correct?

    (I ticked them all.)
     
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  9. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Should have had an "All of the above" box...
     
  10. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    People are what they are, they think what they think, and they do what they do. Religious are just a means some people use to organize and rationalize their experience of being what they are. Without people, religions are just words in books, and idols hanging on walls and sitting on shelved. Religions have no power to do ANYTHING. They have no power to MAKE ANYONE DO ANYTHING. They are nothing more than a conceptual tool. A tool that can be used for good, or for evil, and which depends on the user. Not the tool.
     
    #10 PureX, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I mean...that's a little semantic I feel. If you want to suggest God is not responsible for the bad...or good....religions do, then sure. And obviously religions are made up of people, each of whom needs to take personal responsibility for their actions.

    But religions are things made by men. And just like the fact that the person who installed your metaphorical sign shares responsibility with the buffoon who actually dumps toxic waste, I don't think it's unreasonable to assign blame...or credit...to religions as a whole for their actions. As we do to nations, and as we do to businesses.
     
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  12. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
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    Fine sentiment if it wasn't for the obvious effects religious beliefs tend to have in the world - which so often affects others to their detriment.
     
  13. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
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    True, but are they based in some theoretical or dogmatic belief which might be beyond questioning?
     
  14. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
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    I'm sure all the religions are grateful for such - and no doubt disclaim all wrongs done in their name - but is that going to change anything?
     
  15. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
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    I ran out of allowables (limit of ten it seems) - had plenty more. :oops:
     
    #15 Mock Turtle, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I find it interesting that one obvious reason why a person might be opposed to organized religion
    • intolerance fed by ignorance on the part of that person
    is not a poll option.
     
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  17. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    I selected 1, 5, and 9. Can you please provide some examples of how the scenarios in the other poll options have had a personal impact on you?
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Religion:
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    Yes I can see that, after all the non-religious are not exactly in a minority having to live in a world dominated by the religions. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    So, rather than acknowledging the possible role of intolerance, you choose to model it? Very clever. :D
     
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  20. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    **MOD POST**

    This is a gentle reminder that this thread is in a discussion forum, not a debate forum.

    Debate posts or posts inciting debate are subject to moderation under Rule 10.
     
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