1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Poll: Is killing natural or unnatrual?

Discussion in 'Ethics and Morals' started by Mister Silver, Sep 9, 2017.

?
  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    56.5%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    43.5%
  1. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,081
    Ratings:
    +14,881
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    Though undesirable, I'd have to say that both killing and murder are both natural acts. They are part of human behavior and to pretend they are not robs one of the ability to see a much larger picture of the human being.
     
  2. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    Yes, because killing other people ensures you are a human being. How many people do you kill on average in a year?
     
  3. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    9,627
    Ratings:
    +2,721
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Conjecture. :)
     
  4. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    Perhaps you should have provided more information?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,081
    Ratings:
    +14,881
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    Your first statement is ridiculous. It's part of our biological/psychological makeup, in that, in some circumstances we will kill another being. It's just what we do and have always done as a species. That we have, for the most part, outgrown this biological/psychological imperative is another thing altogether.

    In Diablo III: Reaper of Souls, I have killed, to date.... 12,505,151 critters, of which 571,480 were champion class baddies. (Um, that's a lot, btw...) Oh, no humans or other animals. I'm not even sure that I've ever caught a fish. Hmmmmm.... I have killed a lot of bugs though, I'll openly admit to a Zero Tolerance on bugs. :)
     
  6. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    If it's such a part of who we are, whom have you killed recently? No one? I wonder why that is. Perhaps it has to do with killing being unnatural.

    Go figure.
     
  7. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,081
    Ratings:
    +14,881
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    Nope. As a society, we have moved beyond our programming. That is all. That some have not yet received the email is the point.
     
  8. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    To what kind of programming are you referring?

    Yet, if you are referring to us having moved past the natural programming of killing, wouldn't it then be considered unnatural to kill?
     
  9. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,081
    Ratings:
    +14,881
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    Sociologically perhaps, but there are still times that a normal person will resort to killing though error, inattentiveness or through deliberate action.
     
  10. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    Oh, you didn't read my original post. Self defense was not to be included.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    32,247
    Ratings:
    +11,008
    Religion:
    Process of Spiritual Healing
    I associate natural with good because anything that is part of the laws of nature, if I used English Id define the act of nature by default good and going against the act of nature, bad.

    I view killing in and of itself not excusable for any reason because the law of nature says that our bodies we are born, live, age, and pass away. Anyone disrupting that process upbruptly is going against the law of nature sense human beings do not eat other human beings; its not the natural laws applied to us as some animals. Plants have their own laws as so other living beings. We arent an exception.

    So, it is unnatural/bad to kill for any reason because that is not in the laws of nature to do so. As with self defense, thats a flight or fight response. It doesnt change the immoral nature of killing it just gets us off the hook with America's legal system because we see it as protection rather than intentional killing.
     
    #31 Unveiled Artist, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    20,930
    Ratings:
    +7,242
    Religion:
    Modern Animist
    Directly? I kill about 0.01 a year through my own actions.:rolleyes:

    Odds are that in this life, I won't directly kill someone.

    However, I have killed and will continue to kill many people each year of my life, indirectly.

    The society that enables me to live in the manner that I do causes many, many deaths every year. Most are accidental (such as industrial accidents that result in deaths), while some are intentional (such as in wars conducted to ensure access to resources and markets). Turning on my lights contributes to people dying, including through air pollution from buring coal; using a computer contributes to deaths around the globe, deaths in mining, manufacturing, waste disposal, transportation, etc.; and so on.

    I acknowledge this, but it seems of little import to anyone in this society, and personally I lose little sleep over it, as all I might be able to control is my own actions...and maybe not even all of them. I certainly try to reduce my impact, but short of giving up all but the simplest technologies and 'dropping out' of the social and economic system, I am and will continue to be a killer--just indirectly.

    Is killing natural? Yes. Intentionally killing other humans may be becoming rarer that it was earlier in history, but at the same time our increases in population and technology has increased the proportion of deaths that are indirectly cased by our economic and social systems.

    Is humans killing other humans inevitable? No. We could do a lot better about it, and it begins by recognizing that our actions and our consumption can and does result in deaths of other humans.
     
  13. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    none ........
    Killing must have been natural to our ancestors in various times and circumstances over the thousands of years of human evolution. A remnant of those experiences may be the one mentioned at 2 Kings 6:28, where the Samarian women are discussing eating their children during a famine. And apparently girl infants were killed in India because boys were preferred as they were of greater economic value for the family. Killing seems to be a cultural thing, and perhaps a natural thing. Another reference is at Deut 28:30, although I'm not sure what it's all about: "Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."
     
  14. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    Do you see yourself eating your children if it came to that?
     
  15. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    none ........
    I would say no, but then I've never been starving to death....... And there must have been variations, such as a child that has just been killed by falling or drowning while the community was starving, or even old people who have died naturally while all around them were starving...... maybe just eating a liver, or some muscles.......
     
    #35 corynski, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  16. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    I certainly know I don't have to be in the situation to know what I would or would not do.

    We like to pretend that we absolutely need to be in that situation to know what we would do, but the truth is we already know.

    Deflecting is dishonesty.
     
  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    33,769
    Ratings:
    +14,105
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    That's human nature as well. I think killing is driven by things like instinct. Some people have that predisposition, which is something that in my opinion is not curable or solvable. Otherwise things like wars and other forms of killing would have stopped long ago.
     
  18. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,880
    Ratings:
    +2,724
    Religion:
    Living
    We don't seem that far from it
     
  19. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    8,035
    Ratings:
    +8,575
    Voted "No". Members of the Cheka typically had to get high on drugs to carry out executions and the SS became demoralised after killing Jews. Khmer Rouge executioners and torturers have apologised for their actions (admittedly when on trial). I'm under the impression that criminal psychologists have found that murderers all agree that murder is wrong after the act. Soldiers suffer from PTSD from the experience of killing in war and evidence from the Vietnam War suggests that very few people actually "shoot to kill" unless they are psychologically conditioned to be desensitised. A military strategist who was involved in planning a nuclear attack on the USSR eventually went to Moscow and then broke down in tears when he realised what he had been trying to do.

    I'm setting the bar really low here but even then people still got guilt. In terms of psychology, killing is not natural. politics sadly is another matter. We are social animals and ultimately care about each others welfare. Psychopaths might be different but even they are only "ammoral" by nature. Our Culture may treat killing as trival but that's just TV. Real life looks very different.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    none ........
    And 'deflecting' means what in this context? Perhaps you 'know' the future but I don't have that ability........ So I think it's an illusion that you believe you know now, at this moment, how you will feel, and act, in the future.
     
Loading...