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Featured Poll: Intersex Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Eddi, May 19, 2020.

?
  1. Yes, he most likely was

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No, he certainly wasn't

    59.1%
  3. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. It is impossible to ever know

    22.7%
  5. It's certainly a possibility, that's for sure

    4.5%
  6. Some other response (please share!)

    13.6%
  1. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    An academic has raised the possibility of Jesus Christ having had an intersex condition, of having inside lady parts:

    Jesus may have been a hermaphrodite, claims academic

    I made a post about this in December 2018 but I’m asking again, this time with a poll

    When I did this, back in 2018, someone basically said that there’s as much chance of him having been a chimpanzee than an intersex person, which is silly if we acknowledge the fact that 1.7% births can be classed as intersex – which doesn’t include those with an intersex condition who look “normal” on the outside…

    But was Jesus Christ intersex?

    If we believe him to be a mere historical figure, I think the answer is “why not?”

    But if we believe him to be a part of the Godhead, divine as well as human, then it would make perfect sense. What if God wanted to join humanity as a woman but all the societies were deeply patriarchal and misogynistic? Who would ignore and persecute an intelligent and articulate woman? Well, then he’d send the next best thing!

    But of course, there is no way of ever knowing…

    And of course, at the end of the day I don’t think it matters, not at all

    Pic related:

    intersex.jpg
     
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  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Then why on earth would you wish to "debate" the matter not once but twice?
     
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  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was not intersex, not sure where this idéa comes from?
     
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  4. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    Because it's a possibility, and if it were true it would radically change Christianity and how many people view God
     
  5. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Why do you wish to change a teaching that is more then 2000 years old and was made the way it was supposed to be, without need of changes?
     
  6. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    Because in many ways it would make sense - as God himself is neither wholly male or wholly female
     
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  7. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    There is no gender in heaven that is true. Not even intersex
     
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  8. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    I'm not trying to "change" anything about any of his teachings

    His teachings stand independently of his personal characteristics

    But it would change how people view God

    Jesus is still Jesus, whether he is or is not...
     
  9. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    God is God too no matter how human beings understand God.
     
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  10. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    I totally agree, it's an Earthly thing

    But it's very important
    But God relates to humankind in gendered terms

    In Christianity we have God the Father and Christ the Son
     
  11. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Well, Genesis does say that both man and woman were made in Gods image (he is self producing?) but Jesus body was a male due to the narrative. The patriarchal system was approved by God and incorporated into the Jewish faith.
     
  12. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    It certainly was, at that specific time and place

    But I don't believe that in this age God approves of patriarchy
     
  13. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    In the New Testament it is said that the man is the head, the woman is subservient to him and the children subservient to them.

    Ephesians 5:22-24 ESV
    Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

    1 Corinthians 11:3 ESV
    But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

    1 Peter 3:7 ESV
    Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

    Ephesians 5:23 ESV
    For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

    Would you disagree with the above passages or do you believe there was a specific context for that time?
     
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  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I know it can sometimes be hard to sleep at night, but the OP must have a lot of time on his hands to come up with this kind of nonsense.
     
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  15. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    I believe that some things in the bible are culturally and historically specific and that other parts are universal

    I believe God gave us the gift of reason, to help us tell what's universal and what's culturally and historically specific. I think this is a pretty mainstream view...

    If Jesus was intersex (and I'm only arguing that it is possible) then I'd love to see how the authors of those letters you've quoted would react, as I don't think they'd have known
     
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  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I really don't see the point of asking such a question.
     
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  17. Eddi

    Eddi Konatga Membro

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    How is it nonsensical?
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    OK, let's talk about silly.

    You wrote:

    "... back in 2018, someone basically said that there’s as much chance of him having been a chimpanzee than an intersex person, which is silly if we acknowledge the fact that 1.7% births can be classed as intersex." ​

    ... but it is beyond silly to assume that such a statistic would have any relevance to the Jesus proposed by Christianity. But be sure to get back to us (with your third attempt) once you have verifiable statistics on intersex results of miraculous births.
     
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  19. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I suppose he could be retconned to be whatever you want him to be.

    I'm sorry, want xir to be. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Yazata

    Yazata Member

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    "Academics" say lots of things.

    I think that your estimate might be too high.

    How Common Is Intersex? A Response to Anne Fausto-Sterling - PubMed

    Well, because the ancient Hebrews would never have accepted it. Such an individual would probably have been perceived as something of an abomination.

    Leviticus 21:20 or who is a hunchback or dwarf, or who has an eye defect, a festering rash, scabs, or a crushed testicle.

    Remember that Jesus was supposed to be "without spot or blemish" (1 Peter 1:19, Hebrews 9:14 and elsewhere.) A perfect sacrificial offering to God.

    I have some sympathy with "feminist" theologians who feel alienated by the male-centric nature of Hebrew mythology. Providing a transcendent heavenly role and model for females was probably one of the motivations for the Catholics' emphasis on Mary. Of course the veneration of Mary didn't really start until Christianity had broken from the Hebrews and was recruiting among those who were more familiar with female religious figures. (Goddesses, priestesses, oracles...)

    But if God was reluctant to appear to the Hebrews as a female, knowing that culture wouldn't accept it, how would it make sense for God to choose a form that would have been far less acceptable to the ancient Hebrews than a female form? A form that would immediately have elicited their revulsion?

    I think that it does matter. That's because I'm sympathetic to the problem that Hebrew-derived religiosity only seems to accord females connection to the divine through males. So I'm sympathetic to the felt desire to invent a new version of Christianity that recognizes a feminine dimension to the divine. But I don't think that desire justifies totally speculative and in my opinion exceedingly unlikely historical hypotheses.
     
    #20 Yazata, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
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