Poll: Eddi vs. Laika?

[Eddi]

I have made this post so that everyone may be able to discuss and vote upon the recent one-on-one debate that occurred between @Eddi and @Laika about whether or not a person can be religious and also a true socialist.

Here is a link to the debate in question: https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/laika-vs-eddi-religion-and-socialism.250222/

@Eddi and @Laika may not vote in the poll but can participate and maybe even argue some more - but this will not be a one-on-one environment so others could possibly join in

So... who won?

Let RF decide

 

[Eddi]

@Secret Chief

Thanks for voting

Do you have any comments?

 

[Eddi]

Perhaps @Laika or others would like to argue against these two arguments that I have used in the debate:

This is the precise arguments I used

P1: Religion and Faith are the same thing (true)
P2: Marxism is a faith - it is based on faith (true)
Conclusion: Therefore Marxism is a religion (a valid deduction and a sound argument)

P1: Marxism is a religion (a sound argument shows us this)
P2: Marxism is a kind of Socialism (true)
Conclusion: One can be a Socialist and also an adherent of a religion (a valid deduction and a sound argument)

 

[Secret Chief]

@Secret Chief

Thanks for voting

Do you have any comments?

No, not really.

 

[Eddi]

No, not really.

lol, fair enough!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Ok...so I voted Eddi, but...

I found the whole discussion pretty interesting, and was impressed by the tone and respect of the discussion, as well as the depth of argument on both sides.

Indeed, if I was judging who debated more effectively, I think I'd go for a draw also.

But my starting position before reading the thread was that socialism and religion are not necessarily incompatible, and for all the interesting points @Laika raised...and there were plenty...my mind remained unchanged.

In case you're interested in a brief summary of why (which feels cheap compared to your well thought out posts) I thought there was a linking of socialism to Marxism which is often (but not universally) true...something @Eddi illustrated with a Venn diagram. In much the same way I thought there was an inherent assumption that religion and God were linked.

Whilst Id not eschew Marxism as being 'religious' - I agree that this can be a way some atheists disassociate from Marxist sins, I'm just never sure why - it does have some of the traits of religion. Allowing a broader definition of socialism than that used by Laika, and similarly allowing a broader definition of religion, I remain of the opinion that the two can co-exist. Even if that's more theoretical than pragmatic.

It's worth noting, Laika had the harder job here (in terms of convincing me). I'm a biased judge.

 

[Laika]

I have made this post so that everyone may be able to discuss and vote upon the recent one-on-one debate that occurred between @Eddi and @Laika about whether or not a person can be religious and also a true socialist.

Here is a link to the debate in question: https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/laika-vs-eddi-religion-and-socialism.250222/

@Eddi and @Laika may not vote in the poll but can participate and maybe even argue some more - but this will not be a one-on-one environment so others could possibly join in

So... who won?

Let RF decide

It was a healthy debate and If people decided it was a draw, I'd be quite happy with that outcome. I don't think I won, but I gave it a good go which is what counts.

 

[Eddi]

It was a healthy debate and If people decided it was a draw, I'd be quite happy with that outcome. I don't think I won, but I gave it a good go which is what counts.

I really enjoyed it and learnt a lot from it

 

[Laika]

I really enjoyed it and learnt a lot from it

I'm glad to hear that. We can do it again sometime if we can agree on another topic.

 

[Eddi]

I'm glad to hear that. We can do it again sometime if we can agree on another topic.

Yes, we should do that

But I think it would be fun for us to each argue for a position that we don't at all agree with

 

[Laika]

Yes, we should do that

But I think it would be fun for us to each argue for a position that we don't at all agree with

If we pick a good subject, I'd certainly consider it. Playing devil's advocate can be quite fun.

 

[Eddi]

If we pick a good subject, I'd certainly consider it. Playing devil's advocate can be quite fun.

I think you should pick a subject as I picked the last one

If you're stuck you can google "debate topics" for some ideas!

 

[Laika]

I think you should pick a subject as I picked the last one

If you're stuck you can google "debate topics" for some ideas!

I haven't come up with a subject yet, but if I think of one I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[danieldemol]

I voted @Eddi.

I think @Laika did a great job exposing some of the shortcomings of Christianity, but that wasn't really the topic of the debate.

On the topic which was can you be socialist and religious Laika appeared to construct an elaborate no-true Scotsmen, all Eddi had to do to defeat it was present examples of people who were both religious and socialist - which he did.

In my opinion.