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Poll: Do you consider ideologies to be prisons of the mind?

What do you think?


  • Total voters
    10

Notanumber

A Free Man
I asked this question in the Poll: Taking the knee thread. Has groupthink killed off individual thought?

This conversation provides some answers.

 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I agree that people get offended easily, and there is much wasteful effort in trying to silence and conform people. These are roadblocks to genuine freedom and quality of life for sure.

Ideologies are not a prison so long as they effectively work at providing a better quality of life. There are a lot of failed ideologies or ideologies that people just can't live up to. But not all ideologies are bad. I have an ideology and that is to follow and discover the meanings in virtues. This is worthwhile to me to do.

Ideologies are not prisons so long as you don't look at them as the whole of the finished product. Humans coming from knowing nothing to understanding all the things they do today should never feel like the work is finished; so I agree with that also.

When ideologies become prisons is when we hold those ideologies up as perfect authority and complete works.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Another cheap, loaded question ironically laden with ideological prejudice itself.

I could see someone taking a knee even if they didn't intend to just because of carrying the weight of such a loaded question on their back.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Not watching the video, but I think the term "groupthink" is being misused here. It's a principle from social psychology that is used to describe how individual behavior is mediated to preserve social cohesion, which is required for a social animal like humans to have social cohesion. In other words, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, though a culture obsessed with "individuality" like the United States is more likely to interpret it that way. It's worth keeping in mind that groupthink wouldn't have evolved and persisted within humans if it didn't confer important survival benefits.

To add, groupthink happens in real, social situations, not when alone someplace sipping tea or coffee or operating outside of the group or situations where one is expected to represent that group. It does not switch off ways of thinking that fail to conform to the group like the OP seems to be implying with the claim that it is a "prison of the mind." That said, groupthink can be difficult or functionally impossible to distinguish from things like confirmation bias, which each of us have as well. At the end of the day, humans are social animals and this is inescapable.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Which ideologies on the right actively discourage independent thought and freedom of expression?

That question genuinely doesn't deserve an answer.

It would probably be easier to list ideologies on the right that don't discourage independent thought... assuming there are any.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
That question genuinely doesn't deserve an answer.

It would probably be easier to list ideologies on the right that don't discourage independent thought... assuming there are any.

Can you provide details of occurrences where the Right have tried to de-platform a leftwing speaker on a university campus?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The OP was a little too restricted for my taste. If it had said something like:

"Do you consider ideologies to be mechanisms that allow people to think less", I would have said yes.

That said, not all ideologies are equally "thought limiting". To get anything done, we have to - to some degree - stand on the shoulders of the giant (thinkers), who came before us.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I think this is all a straw man.

Yes there are a few on the left that want to thwart free speech, but there are equal numbers on the right who do it too. Both are wrong.
The right to be not offended does not exist.
The only limit to free speech should be when it is encouraging violence or hate

As Neil Oliver says, the more worrying thing is people blindly following 'their side' - a bit like you do #NotaNumber
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Disagreement with my ideas proves that everyone else follows groupthink and cannot think for themselves!
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
I think this is all a straw man.

Yes there are a few on the left that want to thwart free speech, but there are equal numbers on the right who do it too. Both are wrong.
The right to be not offended does not exist.
The only limit to free speech should be when it is encouraging violence or hate

As Neil Oliver says, the more worrying thing is people blindly following 'their side' - a bit like you do #NotaNumber

Is that really what it seems like to you?

When have I tried to shutdown free speech?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Is that really what it seems like to you?

When have I tried to shutdown free speech?
You personally, not sure

But right wingers want to ...
  • Stop demonstrations (that they disagree with)
  • Ban taking a knee
  • Ban flag burning
  • Ban campaigns to remove statues
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Which ideologies on the right actively discourage independent thought and freedom of expression?
Serious question? Okay.
  1. Attempts to suppress science when it conflicts with religious views or corporate interests.
  2. Attempts to make participation in prayer, pledges, anthems, etc. compulsory.
  3. Attempts to criminalize blasphemy and burning flags.
  4. Attempts to censor displays of sex and nudity.
  5. Attempts to ban depictions and protrayals of LGBT people in media.
  6. Attacks the press for exposing their misdeeds and failures.
 
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