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Politicians need to lie to be politicians. Do you agree?

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It's wishful thinking.
But it's always lying, de facto.
They convince themselves that a war is just, but actually they were bribed by the banking sewer who will enormously benefit from the sale of warfare.

Of course it's lying, but that's part of the great game. It's like salesmanship, which is another field often associated with dishonesty and lying.

Sometimes.
Sometimes they demand that their voters approve of their agenda.

The usual tactic is to warn people of the dire consequences of not engaging in whatever military action they want to take. It's the idea that "if we don't act now, the enemy will come and take away our precious bodily fluids!" Since most people don't want to lose their precious bodily fluids, they can be frightened into supporting whatever action the politicians deem best. They would see that as "trusting the experts," since they presumably know what they're doing.

I want the truth, the ugly truth from the ones I vote for.
Oriana Fallaci: write always the truth. It hurts as excruciatingly as surgical scalpels. But it heals.

A few people want to hear the truth, however ugly, but others want to hear only those truths which are convenient, while discarding that which is inconvenient.

There's the concept of doublespeak, where people might express the "truth" in different ways so as to not make it an outright lie, but perhaps to soften it somewhat. Such as terms like "collateral damage." I remember when the military made some report about a failed missile test where they said it didn't crash, but it "failed to fly." I read a book which had separate sections for military speak, legal speak, advertising speak. Advertisers like to use "weasel words" where they can hawk their product but not get sued for false advertising (and sometimes they still cross the line).
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Of course it's lying, but that's part of the great game. It's like salesmanship, which is another field often associated with dishonesty and lying.
If you can't be honest to your people, choose another profession. The attorney, for example.
But no...they crave for money and politics makes them richer.
The usual tactic is to warn people of the dire consequences of not engaging in whatever military action they want to take. It's the idea that "if we don't act now, the enemy will come and take away our precious bodily fluids!" Since most people don't want to lose their precious bodily fluids, they can be frightened into supporting whatever action the politicians deem best. They would see that as "trusting the experts," since they presumably know what they're doing.
There are peoples who won't be duped.
The French army sided with the people and had the entire aristocracy guillotined.
A few people want to hear the truth, however ugly, but others want to hear only those truths which are convenient, while discarding that which is inconvenient.
I totally agree with you.
That is why I appreciate those politicians who are brutally honest with the people.

There's the concept of doublespeak, where people might express the "truth" in different ways so as to not make it an outright lie, but perhaps to soften it somewhat. Such as terms like "collateral damage." I remember when the military made some report about a failed missile test where they said it didn't crash, but it "failed to fly." I read a book which had separate sections for military speak, legal speak, advertising speak. Advertisers like to use "weasel words" where they can hawk their product but not get sued for false advertising (and sometimes they still cross the line).
Yes, collateral damage, like those astronauts who died during Apollo 1.
But they were not their brothers or fathers, so they couldn't care less.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I am sure this mummy, this talking corpse has ordered the murder of Prime Minister Moro.
1164968135



Because Moro dared be a good man. A pure of heart. Because he wanted the peace, after decades of tensions between Italian Communist Party and Christian Democracy.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Well, yes, but first things first. Can you admit that you are not the objective authority on what a socialist is? I can admit that, so can you?
Considering socialism was born in my country...well...I respect the alternative versions in other countries.
:)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Then stop claiming that you can decide if another poster is a socialist or not. And that includes Italy. None of us are the objective authoritative source for what socialism is. Do we agree?
I think that I have the right to say that socialism is something objective.
And bankers cannot define themselves as socialists. It's like a poppy defined itself as a rose.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That's a very good point.
Mussolini was very honest too.
The problem is that many of his ideas were destructive.
Honesty, in my opinion, is not about saying and doing what you think is the truth. It is about correctly identifying what truth is about a state of affairs, evaluating the proper rational and moral course of action in such circumstances, and then doing it.

Too many people are deluded by their own ignorance, propaganda of others and their own ego to act in this manner.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Honesty, in my opinion, is not about saying and doing what you think is the truth. It is about correctly identifying what truth is about a state of affairs, evaluating the proper rational and moral course of action in such circumstances, and then doing it.

Too many people are deluded by their own ignorance, propaganda of others and their own ego to act in this manner.
I believe truth exists. It's my religion who makes me believe in it.

For example: a person kills a person and nobody ever finds out. He does anything to cover up the truth, by saying they didn't kill anybody.
When he goes to the afterlife, God will take a sort of VCR and show them what they did. The murder.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I think that I have the right to say that socialism is something objective.
And bankers cannot define themselves as socialists. It's like a poppy defined itself as a rose.

Yeah, but that doesn't make it objective.
So I have the right to say that Christianity is objectively evil, but that nether makes it objective or even true.
And all socialists for the defense of Ukraine are not bankers, just because you say so.

But if you really want to play says so, then my answer is that is objectively true that Chrisitans are evil!!! ;)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Yeah, but that doesn't make it objective.
So I have the right to say that Christianity is objectively evil, but that nether makes it objective or even true.
And all socialists for the defense of Ukraine are not bankers, just because you say so.

But if you really want to play says so, then my answer is that is objectively true that Chrisitans are evil!!! ;)
Of course you can say that. There's the first amendment.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I believe truth exists. It's my religion who makes me believe in it.

For example: a person kills a person and nobody ever finds out. He does anything to cover up the truth, by saying they didn't kill anybody.
When he goes to the afterlife, God will take a sort of VCR and show them what they did. The murder.

Yeah, that is your belief.
I believe in a different truth. As for truth and philsophy, you might want to start here:
Nowhere does it mention religion as a theory of truth.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It is not true that truth as such as requires your religion. That is an opinion. And what politics are correct, are always cases of opinion.
For example...if your country saw that before the sabotage of Nordstream pipelines, some American ships entered the Baltic Sea, via Oeresund, and covered up this information, that's lying.
 

Eddi

Pantheist Christian
Premium Member
There are good politicians and bad politicians

For instance Tony Benn vs. Tony Blair

But perhaps to succeed you need to tell porkies?
 
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