Politically Correct Racism — Still Racism, Though

[Debater Slayer]

Before anyone assumes something about me based on my views, no, I'm not white. I'm an Arab from an African country. Just getting this out of the way to shut the door to any potential race-baiting posts.

I'm getting kinda jaded with the whole "white people need to say/do/condemn/support [insert whatever cause or belief here]" rhetoric that seems to start reasonably and then ends up being extended to the most ridiculous kinds of guilt by association, subtle racism (I won't even call it "reverse racism"; it's still racism and that's it), and scapegoating on some occasions when someone points out that minorities should engage in as much introspection and self-correction as anyone else.

A major example of this is when the Middle East's cultural and social problems are brought up. I don't recall the last time I saw this conversation being had without someone inevitably blaming the "West" and "white colonialism"—which, while a factor, doesn't even begin to explain the current problematic, unfortunate situation in the Middle Eastern region.

It doesn't stop there, though. Germany, Sweden, and a few other "white countries" have taken in more Syrian and African refugees than most of the Arab world combined, yet how often do we hear about racism in other countries compared to ones where the majority are white? Actually, let's take this a step further: nowadays, how often do we hear about the evils of things like the Ottoman Empire's widespread colonial tendencies compared to the evils of the "white West"?

I consider this an extremely dangerous and sugarcoated version of racism, not just because it's selective outrage but also because it perpetuates the very prejudice it supposedly rails against, which is based on skin color. Yes, white supremacism is a growing problem in some parts of the world, and yes, it inspires a lot of violence. But guilt by association doesn't solve anything and is just yet another toxic device in a climate that is increasingly becoming rife with blind identity politics over reason and humanitarian values.

Unless, of course, overgeneralization and guilt by association are only acceptable when they target the majority, because how could it not be the cool and progressive thing to do to put everyone but the majority on a pedestal and apply double standards based on that?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, white supremacism is a growing problem in some parts of the world, and yes, it inspires a lot of violence.

Whereas it's always been a huge problem here in the US and we used to have whole industries centered about it, and it has always inspired violence here.

Yes, there's racist non-whites and that's despicable, but they don't hold the same amount of power that whites do. Whites should call out and disavow their rotten brethren as all else should.

Honestly I just think you don't know (or realize?) much about American racial dynamics because you haven't been here and haven't experienced it. Just an observation.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Whereas it's always been a huge problem here and we used to have whole industries centered about it, and it has always inspired violence here.

Yes, there's racist non-whites and that's despicable, but they don't hold the same amount of power that whites do. Whites should call out and disavow their rotten brethren as all else should.

When it comes to the U.S., we don't disagree. However, I think that in a country like, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia, white people are absolutely not the most powerful over there, save for the very highest powers in the U.S. and other countries that influence foreign politics. The average white person is a far cry from those, though.

I think it is hypocritical not to apply the expectation of calling out and disavowing the harmful fringe on groups other than white people—or Muslims, or anyone else.

 

[Revoltingest]

Whereas it's always been a huge problem here in the US and we used to have whole industries centered about it, and it has always inspired violence here.

Yes, there's racist non-whites and that's despicable, but they don't hold the same amount of power that whites do. Whites should call out and disavow their rotten brethren as all else should.

Honestly I just think you don't know (or realize?) much about American racial dynamics because you haven't been here and haven't experienced it. Just an observation.

Can we only call out our own, or must we stick to our own kind?
Never mind...I'll just continue doing as I please.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When it comes to the U.S., we don't disagree. However, I think that in a country like, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia, white people are absolutely not the most powerful over there, save for the very highest powers in the U.S. and other countries that influence foreign politics. The average white person is a far cry from those, though.

I think it is hypocritical not to apply the expectation of calling out and disavowing the harmful fringe on groups other than white people—or Muslims, or anyone else.

I can agree with that.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I disagree with you on one point. I think the "white" Colonialism of the UK, Europe, and later America had an extremely negative effect on Middle Eastern countries, effectively beating many back to the "Stone Age", because they wanted the Oil and other things. Speaking from some level of ignorance, since I am not Arab, all I know is from studying history from books with a jaundiced eye.

It seems that Oil was first discovered in Iran in 1922, and later in KSA (1938). Of course, the world then had to deal with WWII, and at the end of it, the UK somehow thought they owned the Middle East and India. The Colonial nations caused a great deal of pain. I think that is the primary reason for the radicalism in Islamic countries.

Sad, very sad.

 

[Sunstone]

DS, my friend, it is human nature to be much more interested in proving yourself superior to other people, and other people inferior to you, than it is to be interested in something as egotistically useless as "truth", "fairness", and "objectivity". I don't think you can do much about it other than to not take bad ideas seriously. I mean, you cannot prevent other people from rushing down the wrong road, but you can sometimes prevent yourself from rushing down that road.

 

[Sunstone]

Virtue signalling. You got to love it.

 

[Enoch07]

I think an honest student of history looks at history and realizes everybody has enslaved/been enslaved by everybody else at some point. If not enslaved then treated horribly. Either way this doesn't justify or make anyones history ok. But at the same time. It is in the past, we learn from it and move on.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Before anyone assumes something about me based on my views, no, I'm not white. I'm an Arab from an African country. Just getting this out of the way to shut the door to any potential race-baiting posts.

I'm getting kinda jaded with the whole "white people need to say/do/condemn/support [insert whatever cause or belief here]" rhetoric that seems to start reasonably and then ends up being extended to the most ridiculous kinds of guilt by association, subtle racism (I won't even call it "reverse racism"; it's still racism and that's it), and scapegoating on some occasions when someone points out that minorities should engage in as much introspection and self-correction as anyone else.

A major example of this is when the Middle East's cultural and social problems are brought up. I don't recall the last time I saw this conversation being had without someone inevitably blaming the "West" and "white colonialism"—which, while a factor, doesn't even begin to explain the current problematic, unfortunate situation in the Middle Eastern region.

It doesn't stop there, though. Germany, Sweden, and a few other "white countries" have taken in more Syrian and African refugees than most of the Arab world combined, yet how often do we hear about racism in other countries compared to ones where the majority are white? Actually, let's take this a step further: nowadays, how often do we hear about the evils of things like the Ottoman Empire's widespread colonial tendencies compared to the evils of the "white West"?

I consider this an extremely dangerous and sugarcoated version of racism, not just because it's selective outrage but also because it perpetuates the very prejudice it supposedly rails against, which is based on skin color. Yes, white supremacism is a growing problem in some parts of the world, and yes, it inspires a lot of violence. But guilt by association doesn't solve anything and is just yet another toxic device in a climate that is increasingly becoming rife with blind identity politics over reason and humanitarian values.

Unless, of course, overgeneralization and guilt by association are only acceptable when they target the majority, because how could it not be the cool and progressive thing to do to put everyone but the majority on a pedestal and apply double standards based on that?

You know the thing that gets me about racism is that people would love to get rid of it, yet keep reminding one another on just how different one another is.

I could never get that. What's wrong with just calling people by their names like most do with anybody else they know , and those who they come across?

My area is what people refer to as salt and pepper and during day-to-day nobody even notices what color the person they're speaking to.

It's just whatever name their parents gave them. That's the only thing we pretty much notice.

As far as I'm concerned nobody listens to God..er, Morgan Freeman when he gives the most simple practical Sage advice anybody could ever receive, which is basically, " Just stop talking about it".

Fortunately where I'm at, most people seem to like Morgan Freeman, because we apparently listen to him. ;0)

 

[Enoch07]

Morgan Freeman when he gives the most simple practical Sage advice anybody could ever receive, which is basically, " Just stop talking about it".

Mr.Freeman is correct here.

There will always be a very small % of hateful people.

But the best way to deal with our current problems is to leave it on the past and move forward.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Actually, let's take this a step further: nowadays, how often do we hear about the evils of things like the Ottoman Empire's widespread colonial tendencies compared to the evils of the "white West"?

The difference being that the Ottoman Empire didn't have global economic, social and political consequences that are being felt today. If the Ottoman empire has massively imbalanced the world in favour of Eastern ideologies and groups, and this imbalance still existed today, we would be talking about it. But it's not the evils of the empire itself that is the problem - it's the lingering effects that have continued today. The massive social imbalances of western colonialism still exist today, and segregation in America (allegedly the most free and equal society on earth) only ended within the last generation's lifetime. You can't expect the effects of this kind of disparity to disappear overnight, and there certainly are groups and organizations with a vested interest in not just ignoring it, but actively seeking to prolong it. When you have entire races and nations of people being widely dehumanized and robbed of autonomy, equality and influence for hundreds of years, it takes more than a couple of lifetimes to make thing right.

I'm not saying that this is Universally true of all nations and groups affected by western colonialism; but it's something that is always worth keeping in mind when talking about this issue. To categorize this as merely being about deeds perpetrated in the past is not accurate.

I consider this an extremely dangerous and sugarcoated version of racism, not just because it's selective outrage but also because it perpetuates the very prejudice it supposedly rails against, which is based on skin color. Yes, white supremacism is a growing problem in some parts of the world, and yes, it inspires a lot of violence. But guilt by association doesn't solve anything and is just yet another toxic device in a climate that is increasingly becoming rife with blind identity politics over reason and humanitarian values.

I don't think you can equate growing awareness of white privilege and racial disprarity with racism and "guilt by association". In fact, the only people I tend to see talking about this subject in terms of "guilt" are people who are predominantly in positions of advantage who don't really grasp the depths of the issues. The debate about racial disparity is not about guilt - it's about encouraging the people with power and influence (who are predominantly white) to do more to acknowledge and work to fix issues faced by those with less influence (who are predominantly not white). Nobody cares about white people "feeling bad" about racism and privilege. They care about doing something about it, rather than ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[HonestJoe]

I'm getting kinda jaded with the whole "white people need to say/do/condemn/support [insert whatever cause or belief here]" rhetoric that seems to start reasonably and then ends up being extended to the most ridiculous kinds of guilt by association, subtle racism (I won't even call it "reverse racism"; it's still racism and that's it), and scapegoating on some occasions when someone points out that minorities should engage in as much introspection and self-correction as anyone else.

I don’t like the idea that anyone should be expected to do or not do something simply because of their skin colour. I don’t think things are quite as direct or straight forwards as you’re suggesting though.

A major example of this is when the Middle East's cultural and social problems are brought up. I don't recall the last time I saw this conversation being had without someone inevitably blaming the "West" and "white colonialism"—which, while a factor, doesn't even begin to explain the current problematic, unfortunate situation in the Middle Eastern region.

Western influences on other parts of the world, both historic and current are significant. They shouldn’t be exaggerated but nor should they be ignored. On a kind of related note, I think the idea that there is a singular problem that is the Middle East is somewhat flawed and discriminatory. Vast swathes of the Middle East (like Africa, South America, Eastern Europe etc.) are doing quite well, despite any internal and external negative influences.

It doesn't stop there, though. Germany, Sweden, and a few other "white countries" have taken in more Syrian and African refugees than most of the Arab world combined

That simply isn’t true. Most Syrian refugees are in Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. Also, the distribution of refugees is much more a function of where they choose to go as where they’ll be accepted.

Actually, let's take this a step further: nowadays, how often do we hear about the evils of things like the Ottoman Empire's widespread colonial tendencies compared to the evils of the "white West"?

The teaching of history will always be biased towards peoples and cultures (perceived to be) more like the teachers and students and traditionally, history would more often than not present a positive light on “our own”, however inaccurate. The latter problem has improved somewhat in recent generations but the former remains fairly consistent. Basically, in the west we aren’t taught much about the Ottoman Empire at all, positive or negative.