Police, vaccinated or not!

[Suave]

Nearly half of Chicago's Police force is set to go on unpaid leave this week in defiance of the city's C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccine mandate. As much as I'd like most everybody to be vaccinated, I'd rather have full police protection by there being some on duty unvaccinated police than police response time doubled by unvaccinated police officers being put on unpaid leave. Police are essential to the safety of our community. I view police as often being society's last line of defense against people falling victim to violent crime. .Suppose, an elderly loved one of yours needed the police to come to her home in order to save her against a violent intruder. Suppose, she has to wait 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes for the police to get there, because half of her city's police force is out on unpaid leave due to her city's vaccine mandate. Would this be acceptable to you? I'd rather unvaccinated police come to her aid within 5 minutes than police who are vaccinated taking 10 minutes to get there. Most everybody I know is well immune against C.O.V.I.D.19 either by vaccine-induced immunity or by having been infected by the SARS-Cov2, however almost nobody is immune against being targeted by violent criminals. I'm urging mayor Lightfoot to please lift the city's vaccine mandate.

(*edit*) *I realize my poll question might have been poorly phrased. I don't mean longer police service response times due to police getting vaccine shots while on duty., I meant longer response times due to police who can serve on duty needing to have been vaccinated against C.O.V.I.D.19. I think my poll question would have been better worded as Do you favor longer response times to be served by a vaccinated police officer? Sorry, I was not able to edit the pol question.*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As much as I'd like most everybody to be vaccinated, I'd rather have full police protection by there being some on duty unvaccinated police than police response time doubled by unvaccinated police officers being put on unpaid leave.

Add health professionals and you'll get why unvaccinated are fussy over mandates.

Anyway, though, I agree. I personally would make it optional for police. I "think" special police may have more strict rules. State and federal police must get vaccinated.

It's sad. Join the clan (pun intended)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Suave more than likely they'd disagree and put all police and health professionals out of work and blame them for it. It's counterproductive but there it is

 

[JustGeorge]

If that cop had gotten to my house even a minute later, would I still be here? Possibly not.

Quick call times are essential.

 

[PureX]

One would think that any cop with a couple of brain cells would WANT to be vaccinated given that they have to interact closely with often irresponsible strangers on a regular basis.

What worries me most about this is that these are apparently really stupid cops. Why are we hiring such idiots to be cops? Take down their names, and start phasing them out. I'd say fire the lot of them for being idiots, but that would create an even bigger problem in the short term.

 

[Suave]

One would think that any cop with a couple of brain cells would WANT to be vaccinated given that they have to interact closely with often irresponsible strangers on a regular basis.

What worries me most about this is that these are apparently really stupid cops. Why are we hiring such idiots to be cops? Take down their names, and start phasing them out. I'd say fire the lot of them for being idiots, but that would create an even bigger problem in the short term.

I'm highly concerned about the shortage of police officers already, and the shortage of recruits. Seems to me, few people want to join the force. Police officers nowadays for whatever reasons are not afraid to loose their jobs. Unfortunately, the city is not in a strong position to employ only those willing to be vaccinated. **Me let's out big sigh**. Like it or not, I suppose we might be stuck with having unvaccinated police officers serving our community. I'm so glad, at least 90 percent of my community's adult population is well immune against C.O.V.I.D.-19 by either being vaccinated or having natural immunity from having been infected with SARS-Cov2. I suppose many of our police officers might be well immune against SARS-Cov2 by having gotten C.O.V.I.D.-19.; Hopefully, that might finally bode well now for our community's health and safety.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One would think that any cop with a couple of brain cells would WANT to be vaccinated given that they have to interact closely with often irresponsible strangers on a regular basis.

What worries me most about this is that these are apparently really stupid cops. Why are we hiring such idiots to be cops? Take down their names, and start phasing them out. I'd say fire the lot of them for being idiots, but that would create an even bigger problem in the short term.

They are protecting people's right to choose. Not mindlessly jackbooting authoritarianism at the behest of their hive minded superiors.

I'd recommend it but would never force people. It's not freedom.

 

[PureX]

They are protecting people's right to choose. Not mindlessly jackbooting authoritarianism at the behest of their hive minded superiors.

I'd recommend it but would never force people. It's not freedom.

It's a health and safety issue, not a "freedom" issue. We are not free to be stupid to the point of endangering our fellow citizens. And if anyone should understand this, it's the police, who are supposed to be minding the publics's safety.

 

[Suave]

It's a health and safety issue, not a "freedom" issue. We are not free to be stupid to the point of endangering our fellow citizens. And if anyone should understand this, it's the police, who are supposed to be minding the publics's safety.

 

[Suave]

Is the city,s vaccine mandate really going to save lives or cost lives if the community is already at or near herd immunity, and if the vaccine mandate is going to cause a shortage of police?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nearly half of Chicago's Police force is set to go on unpaid leave this week in defiance of the city's C.O.V.I.D.-19 vaccine mandate. As much as I'd like most everybody to be vaccinated, I'd rather have full police protection by there being some on duty unvaccinated police than police response time doubled by unvaccinated police officers being put on unpaid leave. Police are essential to the safety of our community. I view police as often being society's last line of defense against people falling victim to violent crime. .Suppose, an elderly loved one of yours needed the police to come to her home in order to save her against a violent intruder. Suppose, she has to wait 10 minutes instead of 5 minutes for the police to get there, because half of her city's police force is out on unpaid leave due to her city's vaccine mandate. Would this be acceptable to you? I'd rather unvaccinated police come to her aid within 5 minutes than police who are vaccinated taking 10 minutes to get there. Most everybody I know is well immune against C.O.V.I.D.19 either by vaccine-induced immunity or by having been infected by the SARS-Cov2, however almost nobody is immune against being targeted by violent criminals. I'm urging mayor Lightfoot to please lift the city's vaccine mandate.

(*edit*) *I realize my poll question might have been poorly phrased. I don't mean longer police service response times due to police getting vaccine shots while on duty., I meant longer response times due to police who can serve on duty needing to have been vaccinated against C.O.V.I.D.19. I think my poll question would have been better worded as Do you favor longer response times to be served by a vaccinated police officer? Sorry, I was not able to edit the pol question.*

If a lack of ethics and care for others is so systemic in a police force that half of them would walk out rather than get vaccinated, then something is seriously wrong in that police force and some sort of house-cleaning is in order.

I guess what I'm saying is that I disagree with your unstated premise that a bad cop is better than no cop at all.

 

[Stevicus]

I think my poll question would have been better worded as Do you favor longer response times to be served by a vaccinated police officer?

The only times I've ever really needed to call the police was either on behalf of my employer or when a police report # is required for insurance purposes. I've had stuff stolen before, but not once have the police ever found out who did it or recovered my belongings. Most of the time, they arrive after a crime is committed and the perpetrators are long gone, fill out a bunch of paperwork, and then say there's nothing they can do.

Statistically, how often does it actually happen where the cops "arrive in the nick of time" to save someone from certain death? My impression is that such cases are quite rare.

Apart from that, there are structural and systemic ways of reducing the workload of cops so that they aren't saddled with a lot of piddly functions. For one thing, they can stop using them as mobile bureaucrats whose main purpose is to issue citations to raise revenue for local government. They can also stop obsessing over weed smokers and other meaningless, victimless crimes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If that cop had gotten to my house even a minute later, would I still be here? Possibly not.

Quick call times are essential.

@Suave would have us believe that response times would only go down with a vaccine mandate.

Major COVID-19 outbreaks would have a significant effect on response times, too.

 

[Suave]

If a lack of ethics and care for others is so systemic in a police force that half of them would walk out rather than get vaccinated, then something is seriously wrong in that police force and some sort of house-cleaning is in order.

I guess what I'm saying is that I disagree with your unstated premise that a bad cop is better than no cop at all.

Suppose a cop has already had C.O.V.I.D. 19 and she objects to getting vaccinated because of her concerns with cell lines from aborted fetuses being used in vaccine research and development? Would that make her a bad cop? Or suppose a young policeman who has already had C.O.V.I.D. 19 does not want to risk any chance of getting heart inflammation by being mRNA vaccinated, nor risk blood clots from getting vaccinated, would he be a bad cop for refusing to be vaccinated?

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's a health and safety issue, not a "freedom" issue. We are not free to be stupid to the point of endangering our fellow citizens. And if anyone should understand this, it's the police, who are supposed to be minding the publics's safety.

That's where the divide is I think.

Some say it's an issue of freedom and right to choose what they do with their own body and others say it's health and security.

I happen to think both are right.

 

[PureX]

That's where the divide is I think.

Some say it's an issue of freedom and right to choose what they do with their own body and others say it's health and security.

I happen to think both are right.

Drunk driving is also a health and safety issue, not a freedom issue. Cops, above all, should understand this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Suppose a cop has already had C.O.V.I.D. 19 and she objects to getting vaccinated because of her concerns with cell lines from aborted fetuses being used in vaccine research and development? Would that make her a bad cop?

Yes.

All by itself, wilful stupidity is the worst sin of all. On top of that, though, a cop who has chosen to roll the dice with the lives of her fellow officers and the public she serves instead of educate herself about the pandemic has shown through her conduct that she isn't fit to be a cop.

Here are the problems with this hypothetical cop's thinking:

- "I won't take this vaccine because fetal cells were used to test it" is as irrational as "I won't take an organ donation from a murder victim because I'm opposed to murder" and for the same reasons.

- I guarantee that she uses many other products that were tested on fetal cell lines that she isn't complaining about. She's virtually guaranteed to be a hypocrite.

- naturally acquired immunity is often fairly narrow. It can suck against variants they weren't infected with.

- naturally acquired immunity can be very variable in strength. A mild COVID infection can often not give enough immunity to protect against later infections.

- naturally acquired and vaccine acquired immunity both wane over time. Her naturally acquired immunity will need "topping up" with a booster at some point (but there's no telling exactly when... variability and all that).

And probably the most damning: vaccination still improves immunity for people with natural immunity. She's still saying through her actions that she doesn't care enough about her fellow officers and the public to do a very small thing to significantly reduce her risk of passing COVID to someone else.


So yes: she's a bad cop.

 

[Suave]

Yes.

All by itself, wilful stupidity is the worst sin of all. On top of that, though, a cop who has chosen to roll the dice with the lives of her fellow officers and the public she serves instead of educate herself about the pandemic has shown through her conduct that she isn't fit to be a cop.

Here are the problems with this hypothetical cop's thinking:

- "I won't take this vaccine because fetal cells were used to test it" is as irrational as "I won't take an organ donation from a murder victim because I'm opposed to murder" and for the same reasons.

- I guarantee that she uses many other products that were tested on fetal cell lines that she isn't complaining about. She's virtually guaranteed to be a hypocrite.

- naturally acquired immunity is often fairly narrow. It can suck against variants they weren't infected with.

- naturally acquired immunity can be very variable in strength. A mild COVID infection can often not give enough immunity to protect against later infections.

- naturally acquired and vaccine acquired immunity both wane over time. Her naturally acquired immunity will need "topping up" with a booster at some point (but there's no telling exactly when... variability and all that).

And probably the most damning: vaccination still improves immunity for people with natural immunity. She's still saying through her actions that she doesn't care enough about her fellow officers and the public to do a very small thing to significantly reduce her risk of passing COVID to someone else.


So yes: she's a bad cop.

Sorry, my mistake, you missed my post's edited version where I also ask if a young policeman who has already had C.O.V.I.D.19 does not want to chance getting heart inflammation or blood clots by getting a vaccine, if he should be considered a bad cop for his objection to being vaccinated ?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry, You missed my post's edited version where I also ask if a young policeman who has already had C.O.V.I.D.19 does not want to chance getting heart inflammation or blood clots by getting a vaccine, if he should be considered a bad cop for his objection to being vaccinated ?

He would be a bad cop as well, in addition to being a fool.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry, my mistake, you missed my post's edited version where I also ask if a young policeman who has already had C.O.V.I.D.19 does not want to chance getting heart inflammation or blood clots by getting a vaccine, if he should be considered a bad cop for his objection to being vaccinated ?

You keep on focusing on people who have already had COVID. Do you think that a person can't get COVID twice?