Pointing a finger gun lands 12-year-old Johnson County student in handcuffs

[Twilight Hue]

I get the sense that the article doesn't tell the whole story.

Yea. You really got to keep an eye on those deranged 12 year olds. They should of tazed the ******.

 

[Stevicus]

I’m saying that even if they’d taken that exact approach, they’d still be being attacked by the media, politicians and ignorant private individuals (often the same ones!), especially if she took some kind of violent action in the future. This means that the alarmist tabloid reports and knee-jerk reactions don’t automatically mean what is being reported actually happened or what actually happened is wrong. To properly determine that requires much more information that we have available to us at the moment and a much more calm, neutral and rational approach that most of the instinctive reactions involve.

I don't think anyone would fault the school if they disciplined her for this - or if they felt she needed psychological help, they might have referred her to the school psychologist. These would have been appropriate responses, and I doubt they would have gotten any heat over it.

This is more a case like someone bringing Tylenol to school and getting charged with "drug possession." This is as much an issue of schools being administered by wackos as much as anything else.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yea. You really got to keep an eye on those deranged 12 year olds. They should of tazed the ******.

Kinda missing my point, but good try.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is more a case like someone bringing Tylenol to school and getting charged with "drug possession." This is as much an issue of schools being administered by wackos as much as anything else.

Is it?

See... to me, it sounds more like a case where the kid involved and her family are making it out to be overblown and silly, while the other side of the story isn't being told because of privacy and confidentiality rules.

Just because the girl did "finger guns" in class doesn't mean that there wasn't some other, more serious threat that wasn't public knowledge and the kid's family aren't mentioning.

In any case, only one side of the story is out right now, and we're only hearing it from people who have a vested interest in making the girl seem as good as possible and the school and police seem as unreasonable as possible.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is it?

See... to me, it sounds more like a case where the kid involved and her family are making it out to be overblown and silly, while the other side of the story isn't being told because of privacy and confidentiality rules.

Just because the girl did "finger guns" in class doesn't mean that there wasn't some other, more serious threat that wasn't public knowledge and the kid's family aren't mentioning.

In any case, only one side of the story is out right now, and we're only hearing it from people who have a vested interest in making the girl seem as good as possible and the school and police seem as unreasonable as possible.

That's because they are unreasonable as possible. Where in history had any child ever been cuffed for making a finger gun in school except for this paranoid and irrational generation that we have now?

I'll tell you. Never.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's because they are unreasonable as possible. Where in history had any child ever been cuffed for making a finger gun in school except for this paranoid and irrational generation that we have now?

I'll tell you. Never.

... which is why I'm suggesting that you should use your critical thinking skills and consider the possibility that the reason this child was cuffed wasn't because she was making finger guns.

Haven't you ever run into someone who did something wrong but then claimed afterward that they didn't do anything?

Which do you think is more likely:

- a kid did something wrong that they aren't admitting to, or
- police behaved in a way that you yourself describe as out of character for them?

Or better question: what possible reason do you have for jumping to the conclusion that the first possibility couldn't have happened here?

 

[Stevicus]

Is it?

See... to me, it sounds more like a case where the kid involved and her family are making it out to be overblown and silly, while the other side of the story isn't being told because of privacy and confidentiality rules.

Just because the girl did "finger guns" in class doesn't mean that there wasn't some other, more serious threat that wasn't public knowledge and the kid's family aren't mentioning.

In any case, only one side of the story is out right now, and we're only hearing it from people who have a vested interest in making the girl seem as good as possible and the school and police seem as unreasonable as possible.

If there's anything to this, then it will come out in court eventually, if it even gets that far.

Again, the school would have been well within its authority to discipline the child - even suspend her or send her to the school psychologist if they really believed there was a bona fide threat. But calling the police was simply not necessary nor appropriate in the absence of any immediate or imminent threat. As I said earlier, if nothing else, this is a waste of police time and resources. This is just a little kid. I would agree that she might very well need help, but an arrest record won't help anyone here.

 

[HonestJoe]

I don't think anyone would fault the school if they disciplined her for this - or if they felt she needed psychological help, they might have referred her to the school psychologist. These would have been appropriate responses, and I doubt they would have gotten any heat over it.

This is just one example of a school getting grief for discipline (no police action) for a very similar incident; 10-year-old suspended over finger gun - CNN.

This is more a case like someone bringing Tylenol to school and getting charged with "drug possession."

This is kind of off topic but in context I think that claim needs picking up. A major part of the problem I’m talking about is how incidents become mythicized, repeated as broad head-lines, with all the key details, circumstances and often facts lost in the mists of time. Before long, a couple of individual incidents magically become a gross generalisation condemning literally hundreds of thousands of teachers and administrators with wild statements like;

This is as much an issue of schools being administered by wackos as much as anything else.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If there's anything to this, then it will come out in court eventually, if it even gets that far.

But it's not at that stage yet, so how have you figured out the outcome? Are you psychic?

Again, the school would have been well within its authority to discipline the child - even suspend her or send her to the school psychologist if they really believed there was a bona fide threat.

... and you can't imagine any scenario where a school would have reason to call the cops for a student?

But calling the police was simply not necessary nor appropriate in the absence of any immediate or imminent threat.

I don't think you're in a position to say what was necessary or appropriate in this situation, or to say whether there was or wasn't an immediate threat.

As I said earlier, if nothing else, this is a waste of police time and resources. This is just a little kid.

One of the news stories in my area this week is about a murder by school kids: a group of kids, including at least one 14-year-old, jumped a 14-year-old student and stabbed him to death.

This 12-year-old isn't far off that age.

I would agree that she might very well need help, but an arrest record won't help anyone here.

Again: I don't think you're in a position to say what would have been appropriate here.

 

[Stevicus]

But it's not at that stage yet, so how have you figured out the outcome? Are you psychic?

Of course not. You'll note that I said "if."

... and you can't imagine any scenario where a school would have reason to call the cops for a student?

If there's a clear and present danger and/or a violation of the law, sure.

I don't think you're in a position to say what was necessary or appropriate in this situation, or to say whether there was or wasn't an immediate threat.

Neither are you. What's your point?

One of the news stories in my area this week is about a murder by school kids: a group of kids, including at least one 14-year-old, jumped a 14-year-old student and stabbed him to death.

This 12-year-old isn't far off that age.

But this particular 12-year-old didn't stab anyone, nor was there any indication of any weapon present.

Again: I don't think you're in a position to say what would have been appropriate here.

I've seen too many instances of people calling the police for either frivolous reasons or just because they want to use police resources just to make some sort of "point" or "teach a lesson."

 

[Revoltingest]

I know it only from a Guns 'N Roses song.

A who & what?

 

[Revoltingest]

We actually watched that for school a few times. Cool Hand Luke, the Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption were the trifecta go to for school movies.
Apparently my high school really liked Prison Dramas.

I recommend Papillion (1973) over The Green Mile.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A who & what?

A band who is the most overrated anything from the 80/90s, with a nasty person singing for them even though he's known for no showing and if he does show he gets pissy and walks off stage.

 

[We Never Know]

When we arrest 12 year old kids for finger guns and charge them with a felony for threatening

When cities are banning drive up windows to promote health but sell soda cheaper than water

When men can go in the women's restroom because he thinks he's a woman

When illegal immigrants get more help than American Veteran's

When millions die because of cigarettes and alcohol but those companies get a pass

When selected American history is taken down because some find it offensive

When someone uses a gun to kill, we blame the gun, not the person

When you can near sue anyone over anything

When people forget their kids are in the car but don't forget their phone

When we fail to teach about safe sex and prevention but make abortions easy to obtain

When to get a trophy all you have to do is participate

When people would rather text than call

When...... I could go on.

That's when we know our country is ran by whacho's and we are raising weak generation's.

That my opinion. It's not up for debate and you don't have to agree.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You’re missing the point. I’m not saying what you describe would be wrong, indeed, I support it as an approach in such situations.

I’m saying that even if they’d taken that exact approach, they’d still be being attacked by the media, politicians and ignorant private individuals (often the same ones!), especially if she took some kind of violent action in the future. This means that the alarmist tabloid reports and knee-jerk reactions don’t automatically mean what is being reported actually happened or what actually happened is wrong. To properly determine that requires much more information that we have available to us at the moment and a much more calm, neutral and rational approach that most of the instinctive reactions involve.

That's really not a good means or process for making decisions.

 

[Ouroboros]

Doesn't the second amendment say the right to bear arms? Isn't the fingers just an extension to the arm after all!??

 

[Audie]

I don't think anyone would fault the school if they disciplined her for this - or if they felt she needed psychological help, they might have referred her to the school psychologist. These would have been appropriate responses, and I doubt they would have gotten any heat over it.

This is more a case like someone bringing Tylenol to school and getting charged with "drug possession." This is as much an issue of schools being administered by wackos as much as anything else.

We smell a lawsuit coming

 

[HonestJoe]

That's really not a good means or process for making decisions.

Should I take the time to calmly understand what you actually mean by that or should I go with my instinctive reaction and call you an idiot?

 

[Stevicus]

This is just one example of a school getting grief for discipline (no police action) for a very similar incident; 10-year-old suspended over finger gun - CNN.

The reason why such stories gain media attention is because they're rightly seen as gross overreactions to mundane events. Whatever grief the schools end up getting is well deserved.

This is kind of off topic but in context I think that claim needs picking up. A major part of the problem I’m talking about is how incidents become mythicized, repeated as broad head-lines, with all the key details, circumstances and often facts lost in the mists of time. Before long, a couple of individual incidents magically become a gross generalisation condemning literally hundreds of thousands of teachers and administrators with wild statements like;

Wild statements? Hardly. Anyone who has attended public school in the U.S. knows that there are plenty of whacked out teachers and administrators. Plenty of cases where schools have been sued (with taxpayers footing the bill) because someone "made a decision" without thinking it through. Whether it's posting the Ten Commandments in a classroom or forcing elementary school students to submit to a strip search because someone lost their lunch money, we hear about such stories on a regular and recurring basis.

I see no reason why parents, students, or taxpayers should have to tolerate this kind of misconduct.

But sure, if the newspapers aren't telling the whole story or leave out key facts, then that's on them. I have no argument with that point.

 

[Revoltingest]

A band who is the most overrated anything from the 80/90s, with a nasty person singing for them even though he's known for no showing and if he does show he gets pissy and walks off stage.

Sounds....wonderful.