Please teach a foreigner about the United States' Militias!

[oldbadger]

Please just correct and fill in the dots as necessary......

What I have been told is that the US Constitution provides for its citizen's protection with a Military force, a National Guard, various law enforcement services and a civilian militia.

Every male aged between 17 and 45 years (and some women?) can be called up for service.
That's one reason why folks have guns. Yes?

I've got loads of questions, but just to start..........

What preparatory training is provided for the folks who might be called up?
Who can call up the militia?
Do you have to have a gun when you're called up or do you get given one?
When might the militia be called up? Could it be called up to suppress a wicked government, for example?
Once called up, who tells whom what to do, when and where?
Who is accountable for this militia?

Thanks for any replies.......... I have been reading all kinds of info about the militia and it seems very wobbly so far, and I know you can straighten the info out............ or I hope so!

 

[Curious George]

Please just correct and fill in the dots as necessary......

What I have been told is that the US Constitution provides for its citizen's protection with a Military force, a National Guard, various law enforcement services and a civilian militia.

Every male aged between 17 and 45 years (and some women?) can be called up for service.
That's one reason why folks have guns. Yes?

I've got loads of questions, but just to start..........

What preparatory training is provided for the folks who might be called up?
Who can call up the militia?
Do you have to have a gun when you're called up or do you get given one?
When might the militia be called up? Could it be called up to suppress a wicked government, for example?
Once called up, who tells whom what to do, when and where?
Who is accountable for this militia?

Thanks for any replies.......... I have been reading all kinds of info about the militia and it seems very wobbly so far, and I know you can straighten the info out............ or I hope so!

The militia was historically all able bodied males. The militia is now all able bodied citizens.

There is no training, though congress could enact laws that require training.

Congress can either create laws requiring you to provide your own firearm or they could allow for distribution of firearms.

The militia may be called up in times of war.

The executive branch would gives orders, that would be the president.

What do you mean who is accountable?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Please just correct and fill in the dots as necessary......

What I have been told is that the US Constitution provides for its citizen's protection with a Military force, a National Guard, various law enforcement services and a civilian militia.

Every male aged between 17 and 45 years (and some women?) can be called up for service.
That's one reason why folks have guns. Yes?

I've got loads of questions, but just to start..........

What preparatory training is provided for the folks who might be called up?
Who can call up the militia?
Do you have to have a gun when you're called up or do you get given one?
When might the militia be called up? Could it be called up to suppress a wicked government, for example?
Once called up, who tells whom what to do, when and where?
Who is accountable for this militia?

Thanks for any replies.......... I have been reading all kinds of info about the militia and it seems very wobbly so far, and I know you can straighten the info out............ or I hope so!

The National Guard is our official militia. They are trained, weapons are provided, amd they are required not that much serive (I dont remember the required amount), unless there is war then they are often among the first sent in, and are basically Army at that point (although they technically are the Army National Guard). As the law currently exists, only males between the ages 18 - 26 are required to register for the Select Social Service/draft, amd there are massive and severe penalties for failing to do so. Amd because of Trump trangender people are again barred from service.

 

[oldbadger]

The militia was historically all able bodied males. The militia is now all able bodied citizens.

OK.

There is no training, though congress could enact laws that require training.

That's odd. If the militia needed to be called up tomorrow it would be untrained. That's weird.

Congress can either create laws requiring you to provide your own firearm or they could allow for distribution of firearms.

So this militia....... it couldn't be called on quickly.... is that right? This all takes time.

The militia may be called up in times of war.

OK

The executive branch would gives orders, that would be the president.

What if, somehow, you have a wicked President and a bad government doing bad things. What happens then? Does this militia do what it's told by this government to control the people? Or what?

What do you mean who is accountable?

Ah! So....... the town militia won't have an identifiable leader who is responsible for the militia's actions....... is that it?

 

[oldbadger]

The National Guard is our official militia. They are trained, weapons are provided, amd they are required not that much serive (I dont remember the required amount), unless there is war then they are often among the first sent in, and are basically Army at that point (although they technically are the Army National Guard). .

Hi.......... I'm told that the National Guard is separate from the civilian militia.

As the law currently exists, only males between the ages 18 - 26 are required to register for the Select Social Service/draft, amd there are massive and severe penalties for failing to do so. Amd because of Trump trangender people are again barred from service.

Ah ha! @Curious George included all persons by mentioning 'citizens', so my initial suggestion of 'males 17-45' might still be correct.?? I'm talking about the 'militia' and not the 'National Guard'.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hi.......... I'm told that the National Guard is separate from the civilian militia.



Ah ha! @Curious George included all persons by mentioning 'citizens', so my initial suggestion of 'males 17-45' might still be correct.?? I'm talking about the 'militia' and not the 'National Guard'.

If theyre civilian militia, there is no conscription. Amd the rules are basically whatever. Many of them are RW extremists, monitored by the FBI, with one group occupying federal land a few years ago.

 

[Augustus]

Thanks for any replies.......... I have been reading all kinds of info about the militia and it seems very wobbly so far, and I know you can straighten the info out............ or I hope so!

Prior to modernity, most armies were comprised of citizen militias of some kind, or at least these were used to supplement a professional army.

The constitution dates back to this period in time, and also represents some degree of distrust of standing armies.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Happy birthday Trisha I've joined the Michigan militia and and remember I like to keep it in the refrigerator.

It keeps the powder dry, and the action quickerrrr.....

 

[oldbadger]

If theyre civilian militia, there is no conscription. Amd the rules are basically whatever. Many of them are RW extremists, monitored by the FBI, with one group occupying federal land a few years ago.

Oh my goodness!
Is this the militia that was mentioned in the Constitution?

I've been told (on this thread) that the President summonses the militias to come out.

This militia id one of the reasons that folks keep guns, isn't it? That is often mentioned on gun discussions.

 

[oldbadger]

Prior to modernity, most armies were comprised of citizen militias of some kind, or at least these were used to supplement a professional army.

The constitution dates back to this period in time, and also represents some degree of distrust of standing armies.

OK...... but what about now?
If this militia is out of date, then surely parts of the 2nd amendment are ...?

 

[Valjean]

The 'militia' of 1780 isn't the militia of today. We no longer feel a need to call up all able bodied males to repulse an attack by British redcoats.

Today's equivalent is the National Guard. They're government trained, paid and equipped.

The civilian militias are groups of right-wing yahoos who arm and equip themselves and run around the woods in camo taking pot-shots at targets, bottles and the occasional stray turkey, and fancy themselves a bulwark against the coming government takeover.

 

[Mindmaster]

Please just correct and fill in the dots as necessary......

What I have been told is that the US Constitution provides for its citizen's protection with a Military force, a National Guard, various law enforcement services and a civilian militia.

This is a politically divided issue.

1) Most liberally minded people think a militia means "the national guard" or that it is an on-demand force assembled by the government. AKA "organized militia". All states have two organized militias in the form the the national guard, and the air national guard.

2) Most libertarian, centrist, and conservative people take the term to mean a force of able-bodied citizens who can act either with or without the purview of the government. Basically understood as "unorganized militia" or "citizen militia".

Both understandings of the term are correct, and both are likely to be engaged in a time of conflict. Citizen militias may or may not operate under the command of the government, but will operate according to the laws of the land. That's to say they usually form to protect property and persons in areas where government forces are either unable to reach the area or desire to. (Especially in cases where the forces "clear out" during civil unrest.) In most states in the USA it is lawful to prevent violence with armed force in such circumstances even if you're not law enforcement especially in the cases where they've abandoned the post or are overwhelmed. The US justice system considers acts equivalent to law enforcement "peace keeping" in general even if they're not via the normal means if that is the only way, etc. So it's generally considered acceptable in times of unrest to band with other citizens to stop crimes with force if necessary. Though, normally, if the law enforcement system is functioning it wouldn't be.

Citizen militias are usually self-armed, but there have been times in the past where they were supplied by the government authorities and worked with them so the lines are really all over the place. Many of these militias exist in the USA and often they're going to riot stricken areas to let the police get back on their feet. Historically, they've been involved with a lot of rescue operations as well -- usually their focus though is helping homeowners and small businesses protect their neighborhoods.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

OK...... but what about now?
If this militia is out of date, then surely parts of the 2nd amendment are ...?

Yes. But good luck getting gun fetishists to acknowledge this simple fact. The whole "we need ar gunz to protect from gummint tyranny!" Red Dawn/Mel Gibson Patriot fantasy is a central plank in their ridiculous soldier LARP.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes. But good luck getting gun fetishists to acknowledge this simple fact. The whole "we need ar gunz to protect from gummint tyranny!" Red Dawn/Mel Gibson Patriot fantasy is a central plank in their ridiculous soldier LARP.

I know....... did you read the post about 'The President calls out the militia....' ??
The gun nuts go on about (one day) to arm and defens against a bad government/President. This is beginning to look like a mess.

Suppose you're watching telly when you get the call to arm and protect your street. Don't ask me who called you..... !
So you arm and go outside...... who is your leader? ho is their leader? Who in tarnation is your enemy?

Have you gone out to defend against nasty police following unlawful orders, or to protect nice police following nice orders. ....................

I want to know more......... and then I'll need a drink, I expect.

 

[oldbadger]

The 'militia' of 1780 isn't the militia of today. We no longer feel a need to call up all able bodied males to repulse an attack by British redcoats.

Yeah........ our soldiers wear klaki now, and we are all nice, here. (it was you lot..... troublemakers..... )

Today's equivalent is the National Guard. They're government trained, paid and equipped.

Them's different...... much like our Territorial (reserve) Army

The civilian militias are groups of right-wing yahoos who arm and equip themselves and run around the woods in camo taking pot-shots at targets, bottles and the occasional stray turkey, and fancy themselves a bulwark against the coming government takeover.

If all civilian militias are nutters, then this kind of makes a mockery of holding all those guns ........ no?
The whole idea of gun ownership was/os to form civilian militias to defend towns etc......

 

[oldbadger]

This is a politically divided issue.

Fair enough......

1) Most liberally minded people think a militia means "the national guard" or that it is an on-demand force assembled by the government. AKA "organized militia". All states have two organized militias in the form the the national guard, and the air national guard.

Like our Brit T/A these seem very proper, trained and of great value.

2) Most libertarian, centrist, and conservative people take the term to mean a force of able-bodied citizens who can act either with or without the purview of the government. Basically understood as "unorganized militia" or "citizen militia".

Yes......... these are the forces I am interested in learning about.

Both understandings of the term are correct, and both are likely to be engaged in a time of conflict. Citizen militias may or may not operate under the command of the government, but will operate according to the laws of the land. That's to say they usually form to protect property and persons in areas where government forces are either unable to reach the area or desire to. (Especially in cases where the forces "clear out" during civil unrest.) In most states in the USA it is lawful to prevent violence with armed force in such circumstances even if you're not law enforcement especially in the cases where they've abandoned the post or are overwhelmed. The US justice system considers acts equivalent to law enforcement "peace keeping" in general even if they're not via the normal means if that is the only way, etc. So it's generally considered acceptable in times of unrest to band with other citizens to stop crimes with force if necessary. Though, normally, if the law enforcement system is functioning it wouldn't be.

OK..... but what I cannot understand is this....... there seems to be no official proper training for the civilian militia. There does not seem to be any kind of field management or supervision, no uniforms, no insurance provision to protect from mistakes etc.

Citizen militias are usually self-armed, but there have been times in the past where they were supplied by the government authorities and worked with them so the lines are really all over the place. Many of these militias exist in the USA and often they're going to riot stricken areas to let the police get back on their feet. Historically, they've been involved with a lot of rescue operations as well -- usually their focus though is helping homeowners and small businesses protect their neighborhoods.

That sounds more like the National Guard...... yes?

 

[Curious George]

OK.


That's odd. If the militia needed to be called up tomorrow it would be untrained. That's weird.

Yes, that is correct

So this militia....... it couldn't be called on quickly.... is that right? This all takes time.

Define quickly. It can be called up by executive action. I imagine the quickest way would be to call for volunteers and to provide weapons. You didn't ask how quickly. But can everyone be held to their civic duty quickly? No. That would take much more management and planning.

OK


What if, somehow, you have a wicked President and a bad government doing bad things. What happens then? Does this militia do what it's told by this government to control the people? Or what?

Well it is in theory this way because an evil person wouldn't be able to herd cats. However, given our current state of affairs in the u.s. if Trump asked for volunteers to put "liberals" in their place, i expect that he would have plenty. I would hope that Americans would resist any volunteering that asked for service against constitutional principles, however i am sure there would be some who would.

Ah! So....... the town militia won't have an identifiable leader who is responsible for the militia's actions....... is that it?

Executive branch can command the militia. This would mean that the president and whomever is set by the structure the president dictates.

 

[Valjean]

These militias aren't government sanctioned. They're anti-government, right wing extremists.
The Militia Movement

 

[sun rise]

OK...... but what about now?
If this militia is out of date, then surely parts of the 2nd amendment are ...?

The Supreme Court said that militias are not needed and that gun ownership is a right subject to vaguely defined limitations.

Today's "militias" are most extremist right wing proto-terrorists who are getting ready to subject us to a reign of terror and death whenever they decide to do so.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This militia id one of the reasons that folks keep guns, isn't it? That is often mentioned on gun discussions.

5hats what they say, but they'd have them regardless. Too many people here eieve their guns are their freedom and are necessary to have to prevent a military dictatorship.