Please convince me I'm not a prophet

[Nimos]

My meds certainly are working, I once stopped taking them and I went rapidly downhill and had to spend time on a psychiatric ward! They've made my thought-processes more sane, they just haven't done away with Butterfly. If I wasn't on them I would be unable to be sat here reading your message and typing out my own reply

I've found that random people who nothing about things can actually be a good source of wisdom!

So you knowing that you suffer from being schizophrenic also knowing the symptoms, does that in itself not convince you that you are not a prophet? Can you explain why that is the case?

 

[Eddi]

How exactly does butterfly get in the way?

The human psyche is composed of multiple voices. We generally act out of a more or less consistent voice but we also always represent a tension between these voices.

In our social reality we are one of many voices as well and our society as a whole represents a sort of collective psyche. We experience/reflect this outer dynamic in our inner psyche and vice versa.

If you are experiencing a prolonged inner tension between voices then this is really just another piece of that overall experience. You can negotiate with Butterfly I suspect to your mutual benefit. I suspect that even if Butterfly is symptomatic of a biological or cognitive dysfunction, he/she/it is also expressive of YOUR psyche and as such should have a seat at the table in the boardroom that is your psyche. I think you will find that a reasonable and mutually beneficial accommodation can be reached. You may even need each other.

Then you two can work out whether or not you are a prophet. It may be you are in the sort of way that people who really were prophets were very much literally experiencing what you are experiencing.

He gets in the way by causing me to have an awful life-limiting diagnosis

He says I'm a prophet but I don't 100% trust him as he lied in the past about me being Jesus

But on the other hand... who said that God doesn't sometimes lie? Perhaps it is sometimes necessary for God to lie, to guide people towards a certain truth? I have no idea...

 

[sealchan]

So you knowing that you suffer from being schizophrenic also knowing the symptoms, does that in itself not convince you that you are not a prophet? Can you explain why that is the case?

What if actual prophets often were schizophrenic? Does that invalidate their gift or diminish their ability to provide insight into spiritual matters?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

My advice is if Eddi can concentrate to read, to pick up one book on Critical Thinking and one book on Philosophy, and put religion aside and see if the books are good for him. You may be saying "You can't have just said that, AT-AT. He'll dishonor his religion and your advice is crazy." Well, I think if we have a truly benevolent God in the universe, he will give you the time to straighten yourself out before you try to follow him, to verify your ideas and your ideas of him.

What if you tell Butterfly man "You aren't real. Leave me alone unless you can provide empirical evidence and let me verify it?"

 

[columbus]

Please, convince me I am not a prophet:

Who, besides you, thinks that you're a prophet? It certainly isn't me.

If you're the only one who thinks that you're a prophet, then you are the problem. There's help available, but not on internet forums like RF. You have to want help.
Tom

 

[Eddi]

So you knowing that you suffer from being schizophrenic also knowing the symptoms, does that in itself not convince you that you are not a prophet? Can you explain why that is the case?

It does not in conclusively convince me I am not a prophet, no

Because I am by nature curious and imaginative

And maybe Butterfly himself has a hand in what I believe? I don't know...

It all seems very real to me

Also, none of the psychiatrists I've ever had have never seen anything like Butterfly in the medical literature, so if I am a schizophrenic then I have the illness in an exotic form

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Who, besides you, thinks that you're a prophet? It certainly isn't me.

If you're the only one who thinks that you're a prophet, then you are the problem. There's help available, but not on internet forums like RF. You have to want help.
Tom

Well in any case so far, at least I don't think anyone has given him bad advice. Only thing might be is that some of us may take slightly different sides of a coin.

 

[Eddi]

Who, besides you, thinks that you're a prophet? It certainly isn't me.

If you're the only one who thinks that you're a prophet, then you are the problem. There's help available, but not on internet forums like RF. You have to want help.
Tom

I don't think I'm a prophet

And are you suggesting that if enough people believed I was one then I would become one? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[columbus]

Only thing might be is that some of us may take slightly different sides of a coin.

You mean the coin with objective reality on one side, a prophetic delusion on the other?
Tom

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

You mean the coin with objective reality on one side, a prophetic delusion on the other?
Tom

The coin which says "Psychiatrists will fix your problem" on one side, and "It takes both Psychiatrists and your own progress and perserverance" on the other.

 

[columbus]

I don't think I'm a prophet

And are you suggesting that if enough people believed I was one then I would become one? That doesn't make sense to me.

Nevertheless, it happens. Enough people were convinced that Joseph Smith was a prophet to make him one.
If you don't think that you're a prophet you wouldn't be asking people to convince you that you're not a prophet.
Tom

 

[Nimos]

What if actual prophets often were schizophrenic? Does that invalidate their gift or diminish their ability to provide insight into spiritual matters?

Well reading what is said about it:

People with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The last may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to speech that is not understandable known as word salad. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia.[21]

Those things I have highlighted above is not the impression I get when people talk about the wisdom of prophets. So I would say that these things doesn't seem to fit well together.

 

[Eddi]

My advice is if Eddi can concentrate to read, to pick up one book on Critical Thinking and one book on Philosophy, and put religion aside and see if the books are good for him. You may be saying "You can't have just said that, AT-AT. He'll dishonor his religion and your advice is crazy." Well, I think if we have a truly benevolent God in the universe, he will give you the time to straighten yourself out before you try to follow him, to verify your ideas and your ideas of him.

What if you tell Butterfly man "You aren't real. Leave me alone unless you can provide empirical evidence and let me verify it?"

I am already interested in philosophy and critical thinking

And I have told Butterfly he isn't real and that he should get lost, and sometimes that does shut him up for a while, so perhaps I should focus on doing so more often, rather than giving him a say in matters as someone else suggested

 

[sealchan]

He gets in the way by causing me to have an awful life-limiting diagnosis

He says I'm a prophet but I don't 100% trust him as he lied in the past about me being Jesus

But on the other hand... who said that God doesn't sometimes lie? Perhaps it is sometimes necessary for God to lie, to guide people towards a certain truth? I have no idea...

In being wrong Butterfly shows that he is also limited and human. Is Butterfly responsible for the diagnosis? Are either of you?

My concern is that you are trying to completely shut down this voice and blaming it for certain things. You should, of course, take responsibility but this means, IMO, allow Butterfly to have a voice, acknowledge that voice, then retain the final decision as to what you are going to do or act in the matter. Chances are that Butterfly needs you to do this in some way and that all the medications and diagnoses arent apparently going to change this.

 

[Nimos]

It does not in conclusively convince me I am not a prophet, no

Because I am by nature curious and imaginative

And maybe Butterfly himself has a hand in what I believe? I don't know...

It all seems very real to me

Also, none of the psychiatrists I've ever had have never seen anything like Butterfly in the medical literature, so if I am a schizophrenic then I have the illness in an exotic form

Did this logic argument convince you, and if not. Why?

If Butterfly is God, he is unable to lie, so him telling you that he is in control of the simulation that you used to believe in, means that he were lying and therefore also lying about being God, and therefore you can't be a prophet.

But rather you are changing what you believe Butterfly is telling you he/she is, based on how your own believe is changing, as you are not certain what to believe.

 

[columbus]

The coin which says "Psychiatrists will fix your problem" on one side, and "It takes both Psychiatrists and your own progress and perserverance" on the other.

I don't understand why you changed the subject from reality/delusion to psychiatry.
Tom

 

[Eddi]

Nevertheless, it happens. Enough people were convinced that Joseph Smith was a prophet to make him one.
If you don't think that you're a prophet you wouldn't be asking people to convince you that you're not a prophet.
Tom

I'm asking as I suspect I might be one on account of what certain symptoms of my illness are telling me, I know I'm not one but I can't help thinking it

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I am already interested in philosophy and critical thinking

And I have told Butterfly he isn't real and that he should get lost, and sometimes that does shut him up for a while, so perhaps I should focus on doing so more often, rather than giving him a say in matters as someone else suggested

I'm a firm believer in "fake it until you make it" in my personal life. This means if you pretend the voice isn't there long enough, it may eventually go away.

Have you visited your Psychiatrist recently and talked to them about this, though?

 

[Eddi]

Did this logic argument convince you, and if not. Why?

If Butterfly is God, he is unable to lie, so him telling you that he is in control of the simulation that you used to believe in, means that he were lying and therefore also lying about being God, and therefore you can't be a prophet.

But rather you are changing what you believe Butterfly is telling you he/she is, based on how your own believe is changing, as you are not certain what to believe.

1) Is it written anywhere that God does not tell lies?
2) Is it not possible to lead someone to a truth via a sequence of lies?

I hope you will take these as questions, not objections

If you can present me with a sound argument then I'd have no option but to accept it, I just have two questions re: the argument you have kindly provided

 

[Eddi]

I'm a firm believer in "fake it until you make it" in my personal life. This means if you pretend the voice isn't there long enough, it may eventually go away.

Have you visited your Psychiatrist recently and talked to them about this, though?

You may be onto something there!

My psychiatrist understands what I'm going through, whenever I get a new one or have any new contact with a mental health professional they are always surprised that I don't hear voices, they go "oh, so you don't hear voices?" as though that's all schizophrenia is about