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plastic shamans

Discussion in 'Native American DIR' started by painted wolf, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    There are a number of fauds out there trying to make a quick buck off Native American religion...

    how do you tell if someone is a fraud. Well we have discovered the internet and as a service to those who really want to learn about Native religion there are numerous web pages out there devoted to keeping you informed about who to stay away from.

    some helpfull links:
    http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/links.htm
    http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html
    http://www.williams.edu/go/native/natreligion.htm

    if anyone wants you to give them money for any reason... sweat lodge, a pritty rock, book sales... stay away from them!!

    if anyone clames to have learned from an 'old shaman' or similer junk... stay away!

    Our culture and our faith is not there to be pillaged, raped and sold... :149:

    wa:do
     
  2. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Thanks for those links PW... they're going straight onto my bookmarks for future reference.
     
  3. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Wonderful links, PW! It disgusts me that anyone would lay claim to heritage that's not theirs and then try to 'sell' it.

    I'm concerned, sometimes, because I feel I'm 'on the shamanic path', but am not Native American nor do I exclusively follow 'Native spirituality'. I worry a lot, I suppose, about being thought of as a 'plastic shaman'.
     
  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Kissed by Fire

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    Thanks for the links.

    I hate it when people put on an act of telling you there for a good cause, but it's not. This one Asain group was walking around town a few days ago, and this one guy came into Arbys. He couldn't speak english to save his life, and he hands me this card. This card said that "we are a group of missionaries from Mongolia. We are taking up donations for [I don't remember the cause]. If you have $1's or $5's, it would be appreciated. If you donate big with a big heart, such as $20, you will recieve a heart shaped magnet. If you donate with an even bigger heart, such as $50, you will recieve 4 heart magnets. If you have a really big heart and donate $100, you will get 8 magnets. May God be with you and bless you! Amen!" It really had the amounts, and the "such as" on it. Later on, some girl, who had the same card but spoke very good english came in. Not only did she leave a mess in the lobby, but she had a stack of reciepts from several stores.
     
  5. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Just so eveyone knows... this is a reprise of my first post on the Native American area...
    It has since dissapreared but I felt it was nessisary and useful, so I redid it.

    Feathers- You do not try to represent yourself as anything you are not. You are following your heart and using what you have learned respectfully. You don't try to sell it, or clame that you are a 'native shaman'...so don't worry, I think your ok. :cool:

    wa:do
     
  6. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Whew, okay! *hugs PW*

    As you said so eloquently in the other thread, though, you just couldn't sell it, any more than you could sell the wind.
     
  7. kreeden

    kreeden Virus of the Mind

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    Don't give them ideas Feathers ... ;) Give them time and I'm sure that someone will try to sell the Wind .
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Sadly there are fake 'everythings'; I am sorry people have to try and cash in on your religion Painted Wolf.
     
  9. dmerkel

    dmerkel New Member

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    I was doing some research on plastics and green washing, and came up with this thread on shamans.

    I have been very lucky later in my life to have been invited to experience several real native american traditions, as well as several mayan, and a few others. Each was by invitation, and were lead by shamans trained by their counterparts, in one case, for many years prior to his death. These were not whie ego-people on the street who claimed to be shamans or spiritual men, but the genuine article, and the rituals or gatherings were on their spiritual turf. In one case, it was an eagle staff gathering, and I was blessed enough to be one of two other white men among an entire tribe. We sat totally quiet and humble for the ceremony and only participated when asked.

    In every case, I asked the question that was commented on in this post - who does this spirituality belong to? In every case, it was made very clear to me it cannot belong to ANYBODY. It was also explained to me the rape of peoples, and the destruction of spiritualities has come over the centuries from all aspects of mankind. Native American and the Mayans are just latest examples. All of us, every human lineage, were once in tribes. All had shamans and holy men or women who gaurded the sacred and ministered to the people. To believe one lineage is somehow by race or color more evil than another will lead to evil itself. The spirits understand do not belong to anyone, but pass thru us. It is not color that make us what we are, but the spirits we ask to pass thru us. None of us are chosen. That very thought is evil.

    I know there are two sets of thinking out there. One says don't share that, because it is fragile and will be stolen and bastardized. I beleive this to be totally true if not gaurded. The shamans say this can be used for evil if not used appropriately. I agree, but, the other also says it does not belong to us, and must be shared appropriately if respected, because we are all one. They say the world most certainly will be filled with evil if not shared. I beleive in this also.

    The problem is we have shamans, and we have fakirs, and we have demons. It is up to us to know the difference.

    Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
    Miigwech
    David
     
  10. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Share... but protect the integrity of the culture and faith.

    The key is respect.

    wa:do
     
  11. Moonstone

    Moonstone inactive

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    it's really an awful shame that people are doing this..for both Natives themselves and also people who are legitly interested in learning about Native spirituality. :(

    -Princess Dot
     
    #12 Moonstone, Jan 29, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  12. Humanistheart

    Humanistheart Well-Known Member

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    It happens all the time.
     
  13. SkinnyCheruscian

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    Very important subject, thanks for posting the informative links.

    I am a male white European, late 40s, and have come in contact with the sweat lodge in the 1980s. It was very important in really difficult times, it has taught me the power of prayer.

    Now, I hesitate to mention the sweat lodge, because most Non-Natives here get it wrong, and I don't want to be taken for one of them. Commercialisation. Superficiality.

    Still I find it wrong if people hear me saying "sweat lodge" react: "how dare you, epxloiter of Native American spirituality!"

    I find the discourse around the issue at times too narrow, particularly seeing the role of ethnicity in it undifferentiatedly. It is not for nothing that certain Native elders have opened certain teaching for whites in teh 1970s. It is also not for nothing that a New generation of Natives objects to exploitation. They both have a point.

    As a non-Native person, what I can hope to learn from elders who might have the kindness of sharing will be something entirely different from what the same elders will teach people of their Nations. So ethnicity is important, but not in a black-white fashion (pun unintended)

    Non-Native people should really reflect well, what do I want, what is it that attracts me, what are my expectations, are they realistic and appropriate, am I respectful and modest.

    Because of the controversality of the Native American exploitation isse, I went to a quaker meeting to check them out. I heard about them and was wondering whether they could possibly be a group closer to my background that has something for me to offer.

    It was brilliant. People sat in a circle, like in the sweat, silent for one hour, interrupted only by two spontaneous utterings of inspiration by two female elders. The first associated snow drops and the first sings of spring with hope. The second picked this up, associating further snow-water-rainbow and that "the divine light is composed of all the colours, which is why we should not exclude anybody, not a single person". That was exactly how I have understood the Lakota prayer "Mitakuye oyas'in" - all my relatives.
     
  14. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Oh absolutely... It's not a matter of race, but one of respect. Perhaps someday I'll be lucky enough to be able to participate in a sweat. :D

    wa:do
     
  15. Jacksnyte

    Jacksnyte Reverend

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    I am Choctaw on my mother's side, and a member of A.I.M. I have something to post here that might be relevant to the topic at hand:

    Say No to the exploitation of our Spirituality!To members of Support American Indian Movement
    [​IMG]
    you CAN still PARTICIPATE!

    and sign the petition, please!

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/littlegrandmother/


    Here are some OPTIONS!
    1) Call the Palm Springs Convention Center’s
    Executive Director,
    James Canfield at his direct number: 760-322-8400.

    2) Please email the Executive Director, and Division Directors at the Convention Center, as well as copying William Dean, the Editor of The Desert Sun (you may copy and paste email addresses, and suggested body of letter below to simplify):

    TO: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]

    CC: [email protected]
     
  16. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Thanks for the links! :D

    wa:do
     
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