Place of miracles in today's time.

[Link]

What about ad-Dajjal (the anti-Christ)? Will he not also be able to perform miracles?

Dajjal and miracle surrounding him was a way of people to show Muslims don't accept miracles and follow their scholars blindly and it's true. It's a way of Gog and Magog to justify their stance against Mohammad (s), by saying, see Muslims too believe deceivers can perform such miracles and they have same stance as us. You should know Gog and Magog infiltrate the religion of God and it got so bad in children of Israel that Elyas (a) had to make a showdown between false Prophets and himself, and show one claims to have powers, but have very little even when combined, while the miracles he performed showed his Lord was the True Living God.

Dajjal can't perform miracles, he can perform some magic like sorcery of sorcerers do already, but not miracles and not what the hadiths describe (bringing people to death and back to life for example, is not performable by him).

 

[Link]

Why would that be? How would I be missing out? If they are actually occurring, then isn't the world reaping the benefits of them regardless whether I witness them or not? What do I care if I actually witness the miracles? Isn't it more important that whatever help these "miracles" are bringing is being brought? I have no directed interest in witnessing miracles. If I happen to witness one, then perhaps I will go about the business of verifying its authenticity, and perhaps that leads me to "believe" - but I question of what use that belief is anyway. As stated, the miracles will be happening (or not) regardless my involvement, and that is far more important anyway.

It might come to you, it might come to most humans, but then which side do we take, the side of the guide or accuse him of sorcery and join his enemies.

 

[Link]

Who is this guide of the time?

The son of Hassan Al-Askari (a).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Dajjal and miracle surrounding him was a way of people to show Muslims don't accept miracles and follow their scholars blindly and it's true. It's a way of Gog and Magog to justify their stance against Mohammad (s), by saying, see Muslims too believe deceivers can perform such miracles and they have same stance as us. You should know Gog and Magog infiltrate the religion of God and it got so bad in children of Israel that Elyas (a) had to make a showdown between false Prophets and himself, and show one claims to have powers, but have very little even when combined, while the miracles he performed showed his Lord was the True Living God.

Dajjal can't perform miracles, he can perform some magic like sorcery of sorcerers do already, but not miracles and not what the hadiths describe (bringing people to death and back to life for example, is not performable by him).

What's your definition of a 'miracle' then? What distinguishes it from the kind of magic that ad-Dajjal will perform?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The son of Hassan Al-Askari (a).

And where is he today?

 

[Link]

What's your definition of a 'miracle' then? What distinguishes it from the kind of magic that ad-Dajjal will perform?

Iblis and his magic, and his Qareen's (Gog) magic can be defeated by a believer. It's not a big thing.

The power of miracles and power they display, is such that questioning is to question the power invested in all chosen and Angels, and to question the order of the universe.

 

[Link]

And where is he today?

On earth.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Iblis and his magic, and his Qareen's (Gog) magic can be defeated by a believer. It's not a big thing.

I think, practically-speaking, this kind of magic as performed by ad-Dajjal will look a lot like a miracle and many will be deceived thereby. Many will look at his magic/'miracles' and think he is the Messiah as a result.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

On earth.

Still hidden?

 

[Link]

I think, practically-speaking, this kind of magic as performed by ad-Dajjal will look a lot like a miracle and many will be deceived thereby. Many will look at his magic/'miracles' and think he is the Messiah as a result.

There is no comparison between miracles and magic of Iblis and his forces. The type of magic they perform can all be defeated by a believer, and they can't even create a fly, unlike Jesus who created a bird.

 

[Link]

Still hidden?

What do you think?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There is no comparison between miracles and magic of Iblis and his forces. The type of magic they perform can all be defeated by a believer, and they can't even create a fly, unlike Jesus who created a bird.

I'll admit, I'm more familiar with Sunni Ahadith about ad-Dajjal's magical powers, but I thought there were also Shi'a Ahadith about his magical powers too?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

What do you think?

Well, perhaps he has revealed himself to a few people already and has performed miracles before them, if he is indeed the Mahdi?

 

[Link]

@The_Fisher_King

This is part of the long Du'a Arifni nafsika:


allahumma inni as'aluka an turiyani waliyya al-amri
O Allah, I beseech You to allow me to see the Wali-Amr

ظَاهِراً نَافِذَ ٱلامْرِ
zahiran nafidha al-amri
apparent and prevalent,

مَعَ عِلْمِي بِانَّ لَكَ ٱلسُّلْطَانَ وَٱلْقُدْرَةَ
ma`a `ilmi bi-anna laka alssultana wa alqudrata
with the knowledge to you belongs authority, power,

وَٱلْبُرْهَانَ وَٱلْحُجَّةَ
wa alburhana wa alhujjata
potency, argument,

وَٱلْمَشِيَّةَ وَٱلْحَوْلَ وَٱلْقُوَّةَ
wa almashi'ata wa lhawla wa alquwwata
volition, might, and strength

فَٱفْعَلْ ذٰلِكَ بِي وَبِجَمِيعِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ
faf`al dhalika bi wa bijami`i almu'minina
So, do this to me and to all the believers

حَتَّىٰ نَنْظُرَ إلَىٰ وَلِيِّكَ صَلَوَاتُكَ عَلَيْهِ
hatta nanzura ila waliyyika salawatuka `alayhi
so that we will be able to witness Your representative, Your peace be upon him,

ظَاهِرَ ٱلْمَقَالَةِ
zahira almaqalati
while he is evident in claim,

وَاضِحَ ٱلدِّلاَلَةِ
wadiha alddilalati
manifest in proof,

هَادِياً مِنَ ٱلضَّلاَلَةِ
hadiyan mina alddalalati
guiding from deviation,

شَافِياً مِنَ ٱلجَهَالَةِ
shafi`an mina aljahalati
and healing from ignorance.

ابْرِزْ يَا رَبِّ مُشَاهَدَتَهُ
abriz ya rabbi mushahadatahu
O my Lord, make the looking at him eminent,

وَثَبِّتْ قَوَاعِدَهُ
wa thabbit qawa`idahu
make firm his bases,

وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِمَّنْ تَقَرُّ عَيْنُهُ بِرُؤْيَتِهِ
waj`alna mimman taqarru `aynuhu biru'yatihi
make us of those whose eyes are delighted by seeing him,

وَاقِمْنَا بِخِدْمَتِهِ
wa aqimna bikhidmatihi
employ us to serve him,

وَتَوَفَّنَا عَلَىٰ مِلَّتِهِ
wa tawaffana `ala millatihi
make us die following his creed,

وَٱحْشُرْنَا فِي زُمْرَتِهِ
wa ihshurna fi zumratihi
and include us with his group.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

@The_Fisher_King

This is part of the long Du'a Arifni nafsika:


allahumma inni as'aluka an turiyani waliyya al-amri
O Allah, I beseech You to allow me to see the Wali-Amr

ظَاهِراً نَافِذَ ٱلامْرِ
zahiran nafidha al-amri
apparent and prevalent,

مَعَ عِلْمِي بِانَّ لَكَ ٱلسُّلْطَانَ وَٱلْقُدْرَةَ
ma`a `ilmi bi-anna laka alssultana wa alqudrata
with the knowledge to you belongs authority, power,

وَٱلْبُرْهَانَ وَٱلْحُجَّةَ
wa alburhana wa alhujjata
potency, argument,

وَٱلْمَشِيَّةَ وَٱلْحَوْلَ وَٱلْقُوَّةَ
wa almashi'ata wa lhawla wa alquwwata
volition, might, and strength

فَٱفْعَلْ ذٰلِكَ بِي وَبِجَمِيعِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ
faf`al dhalika bi wa bijami`i almu'minina
So, do this to me and to all the believers

حَتَّىٰ نَنْظُرَ إلَىٰ وَلِيِّكَ صَلَوَاتُكَ عَلَيْهِ
hatta nanzura ila waliyyika salawatuka `alayhi
so that we will be able to witness Your representative, Your peace be upon him,

ظَاهِرَ ٱلْمَقَالَةِ
zahira almaqalati
while he is evident in claim,

وَاضِحَ ٱلدِّلاَلَةِ
wadiha alddilalati
manifest in proof,

هَادِياً مِنَ ٱلضَّلاَلَةِ
hadiyan mina alddalalati
guiding from deviation,

شَافِياً مِنَ ٱلجَهَالَةِ
shafi`an mina aljahalati
and healing from ignorance.

ابْرِزْ يَا رَبِّ مُشَاهَدَتَهُ
abriz ya rabbi mushahadatahu
O my Lord, make the looking at him eminent,

وَثَبِّتْ قَوَاعِدَهُ
wa thabbit qawa`idahu
make firm his bases,

وَٱجْعَلْنَا مِمَّنْ تَقَرُّ عَيْنُهُ بِرُؤْيَتِهِ
waj`alna mimman taqarru `aynuhu biru'yatihi
make us of those whose eyes are delighted by seeing him,

وَاقِمْنَا بِخِدْمَتِهِ
wa aqimna bikhidmatihi
employ us to serve him,

وَتَوَفَّنَا عَلَىٰ مِلَّتِهِ
wa tawaffana `ala millatihi
make us die following his creed,

وَٱحْشُرْنَا فِي زُمْرَتِهِ
wa ihshurna fi zumratihi
and include us with his group.

Thank you for that. But that doesn't exactly answer my questions.

 

[Link]

Thank you for that. But that doesn't exactly answer my questions.

It can though, if you reflect over it.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I believe miracles have a place in today's time too not just the future and the past, and it's alluded that Imam Mahdi will show the miracles, if we pray to God frequently both in Quran and ahadith. Du'a arifina nafsika is clear, but also Quran when it has discussed the signs said for every people there is a guide that can show these signs and who the signs prove and else where it said the hiding is up to God and else where said about them asking for such clear proof, he guides to himself those who often turn to him and else where said he has shown the signs to a people who are certain. Those who ask God frequently believing in what Quran has said about guidance, miracles, and the guide, I believe they will be shown and be guided by the hands of Imam Mahdi and he will show clear miracles and proofs. Ibrahim asked God to show him clear proofs - show him how to raise the dead, so he can have tranquility. We have the right as well in my view.

The only difference is Imam Mahdi is not in public view, and miracles are not in public view in front of masses.

I believe in miracles for what it's worth.

 

[F1fan]

Each type of belief has different ways of being proven. There is the abstract concepts, like "guidance from God is the guidance", more specific abstract like Messengers and chosen Ahullbayts, then there is specifically who we apply the abstract in theory for example Quran from Mohammad (s) and Ahlulbayt of Mohammad (s) in my case and particularly the Twelve Successors which is a specific of the abstract. So they require two different insights and proofs although the two proofs are related and intertwined.

Most of these concepts require a huge amount of evidence, for example the necessity to demonstrate a God exists in the first place. You can just make posts that assume a God exists but your proof ends right there because objective thinkers aren't going to assume your beliefs are true.

This is the major failure of theists: to assume a God exists and expect others to agree with your assumption.

Then there is what they actually teach and how to arrive at that, and every type of knowledge regarding that, has different type of proofs and insights.

But if you tell a child that a God exists you're not teaching them knowledge, you're indoctrinating them.

What do you want me to prove that I believe in? If everything, sorry, that's going to take too long.

Well that's great for you because I suspect you'll spend quite a bit of time telling us that miracles happen and that a God exists. But sorry, this is a debate forum and a number of us won't let you evade your duty to justify your claims.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Most of these concepts require a huge amount of evidence, for example the necessity to demonstrate a God exists in the first place. You can just make posts that assume a God exists but your proof ends right there because objective thinkers aren't going to assume your beliefs are true.

This is the major failure of theists: to assume a God exists and expect others to agree with your assumption.

But if you tell a child that a God exists you're not teaching them knowledge, you're indoctrinating them.

Well that's great for you because I suspect you'll spend quite a bit of time telling us that miracles happen and that a God exists. But sorry, this is a debate forum and a number of us won't let you evade your duty to justify your claims.

Buddhas are said to have some great powers, some may even say miraculous, do you believe it so?

 

[F1fan]

Buddhas are said to have some great powers, some may even say miraculous, do you believe it so?

No. Even Buddha himself didn't;t claim any special powers. he actually taught his students that if they disagreed with anything he said they should listen to their own mind.

There are some theistic forms of Buddhism that do have supernatural elements. The thing about Eastern religion is how they treat the supernatural as metaphors for experiences, or phenomena, or whatever.