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Pink Floyd founder cancels Poland concerts after war remarks

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Stevicus, Sep 25, 2022.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Pink Floyd founder cancels Poland concerts after war remarks | AP News

    Well, I'm not sure what to make of this, although the longer this war goes on, I would expect more and more people to fall out from the official line held by governments.
     
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  2. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    I don't see the issue: he wasn't banned by authorities from performing. It was popular sentiment against his position that led to the cancellation by his own manager.

    I view it as a good thing that there has been such widespread pushback against his views, because I find his stance deeply problematic save perhaps for the understandable opinion that the West and NATO partially flamed the fans of conflict prior to the invasion. I just hope that going forward, support or apologetics for other human rights violations and unjustified wars generates the same level of backlash--not just when it comes to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
     
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  3. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    Pink Floyd is one of my favorite bands ever, but Roger Waters has always been very political. That's what caused most of his troubles with David Gilmour. I suppose it's just his nature to get involved.
     
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  4. Yerda

    Yerda Well-Known Member

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    Only Russia invaded. Nobody else.

    If my neighbour calls me a scumbag every day, and I break into his house, burn his curtains down and **** on his bed only I'm to blame for what I've done even if his namecalling made me angry.

    Ukraine didn't fire a shot and as long as the Ukrainian people choose to defend themselves I hope we provide them with the means.
     
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  5. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Hi, fellow primates AND overlords!
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    Can't comment as to 'extreme nationalists' being an issue, but no doubt many of us could see the annexation of Crimea and the lacklustre response by other nations to such as perhaps contributing to why Putin invaded. But Putin was the one who made the decision, and seemingly expecting a suitable response - as to taking leadership of Ukraine and no response by any other nations apart from talk - but he didn't get that. One might accept that the current censorship in Russia has come about due to the invasion but his taking over of any existing democracy in Russia is surely beyond the pale and grounds to resist his attempts in 'making Russia great again'. Probably coming from his talks with Trump too. joke/ :oops:
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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  7. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, Roger Waters quite clearly isn't advocating support for Putin's aggression.

    They say truth is the first casualty of war, but nuanced dissenting opinions based on personal convictions,, don't tend to survive long either.
     
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  8. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's unfortunate that so many pandering 'news' outlets feel the need to keep bringing the band Pink Floyd into the story, which in fact has nothing whatever to do with the band Pink Floyd, except that Roger Waters was once a member of it. If Paul McCartney suddenly came out against abortion it would have nothing whatever to do with the Beatles. Yet every news outlet on the planet would headline, "Beatles frontman pans abortion!".

    Anyway, I suspect the Polish part of the tour was cancelled because of safety worries. Concert promoters are especially sensitive about the safety and security of fans since some recent deadly incidents happening at large concerts.
     
    #8 PureX, Sep 25, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  9. Yerda

    Yerda Well-Known Member

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    This is probably true. Waters is quite firm in his criticism of imperialism and colonisation, wars and aggression as far as I can tell.

    There are parallels between this and the situation in Palestine. There are hypernationalists there too - provoking Israel by firing rockets over the border, calling for destruction of the Israeli state etc. I don't think anyone who isn't tribally pro-Israeli thinks this justifies the hell that rains down on the Palestinians, the brutal occupation, the open-prison nature of their containment and frankly racist dismissal of their right to peace and self determination. But it is also true that the militant elements often leave the Israeli state with a choice between eating the bowl of faeces that Hamas or whoever serves them or responding with violence. I doubt any country is enlightened enough to often take the peaceful hit to the chin.

    I don't think it's beyond the pale to include the threats that Russia feels in the discussion. It's definitely worthwhile to consider the actions of "The West" and Ukraine in our evaluation of how we got here but we should focus on who is committing the act of aggression here. Who is trashing who's cities, which civilians are being killed etc.
     
  10. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there is likely some truth to what Waters said. The dilemma with truth, especially political, it that it is complex and has multiple layers of causality. We could blame the North for the Civil War if the actions of the North and Lincoln were emphasized. It's the broader set of facts and truth that allows us a better informed understanding of issues. This is exposed in America's polarized nation.

    It's possible Waters is more conservative as he ages and relying on more dubious media, like many others do. Look at the trouble Brett Favre is in, and as a celebrated athlete we expect him to be more neutral and inflormed and ethical. We get shocked when celebrated people show a darker side of them.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    It's not that it's any major issue, but it seemed noteworthy.

    I agree that his stance is certainly problematic, but I think it points up the fact that there are multiple sides to every conflict.

    Strictly speaking, the countries of NATO are officially "neutral" in that none of them have officially declared war on Russia. Despite sanctions and diplomatic censure, Russia is not officially an "enemy" of the West.

    Therefore, in terms of a citizen's obligation to be loyal and patriotic to one's own nation, there is no legal requirement or patriotic duty to take sides in a foreign conflict which does not involve one's own country.

    If a neutral, uninvolved bystander forms an opinion about a conflict which doesn't involve them, then it's just an opinion from a neutral, uninvolved bystander. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't change anything. But it does seem to generate the backlash of which you speak, and that is also noteworthy.
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I read about this earlier, and was disappointed to learn that Roger Waters is an apologist for Russia and China. Knowing where he stood on things on the past, it's surprising to see him throw support behind oppressive and abusive regimes.
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about that..
    "we don't need no education" :(

    It seems to me that he is an avid Trotskyite [Marxist]
     
  14. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    You raise an interesting point about what we might expect from celebrated athletes, musicians, and other public figures - even if they're not actually politicians and have no more control over public policy than any other average Joe with a mouth (or a keyboard). But I think there's a general expectation that public figures would conform to a certain set of parameters when communicating anything for public consumption.

    I still recall when the Dixie Chicks got into trouble for saying things which were regarded as "anti-American." They opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq. More than a few people weren't happy about that, and I recall some pretty unkind things said about them.

    I also agree with your point about wars having multiple layers of causality and complexity. There's also multiple sides to this conflict - not just the Ukrainian and Russian sides, but the side taken by the West, NATO, as well as other parts of the world - China, India, Iran, Central Asia. They're not looking at it from the same vantage point as the West. They may not support the Russian invasion, but their perception of it may still be different.
     
  15. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I guess it depends on how popular a band is and how many people know the names of the individual players in a band. I think more people might recognize the name of a band more readily than they would remember or recognize the names of those in it. Though there are some exceptions.
     
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  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Certified People sTabber

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    It may be like the Beatles having concerts in the US South canceled for safety concerns after that wanker of a pastor spun Lennon way out of context to make him seem arrogant when he said the Beatles are bigger than Jesus.
    Would be nice to get some actual info from his manager though.
     
  18. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    John Lennon was a piece of ****, but not for that.
     
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  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Certified People sTabber

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    Well, they blame women for bringing sin into the world, believe sparing the rod turns your kid into a spoiled brat, so what were they going to go after?
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    **** Waters.
    **** Putin & his fellow war criminals.
    May they all die a quick death so that Ukraine can become peaceful again.
     
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