Philosophical Theory on Ghosts/Attached souls

[RedDragon94]

What is the effect of suffering? (Line indicates conclusions)
1. Suffering exists.
2. Humans cause suffering.
3. Suffering is caused by conflict.
4. Other lifeforms cause suffering too, not just humans.
5. For example, carnivores hunt to survive.
6. Suffering is inevitable.
7. Suffering is necessary.
8. Unnecessary suffering ought to be avoided.
9. Unnecessary suffering causes disorder on a macro scale.
10. Prolonged unnecessary suffering causes spiritual suffering.
11. (Further concluded) Prolonged spiritual suffering causes spiritual attachment.

Spiritual attachment= When a person's soul gets attached to an object of their desire in the midst of suffering. The object could be something that was taken from them. Spiritual attachment can last after death.

Just a theory, don't go documenting me. Anybody else have a theory on this subject?

 

[Axe Elf]

I think you were doing ok up through #7. I think we can rationally get to the idea that suffering is necessary. I can even get there another way, if I assume the existence of an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent Creator.

An omnibenevolent Creator would WANT to create the best of all possible universes. An omniscient Creator would know HOW to create the best of all possible universes. An omnipotent Creator would have the POWER to create the best of all possible universes. So if an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent Creator exists, then we are logically constrained to conclude that we live in the best of all possible universes.

It follows, therefore, that suffering is necessary--that any suffering we observe is merely that amount of suffering that is necessary to the best of all possible universes. Carnivores cause suffering, but are necessary to the overall food chain. Hurricanes cause suffering, but they are necessary for Earth to have an atmosphere that supports life as we know it.

But then you take a pretty big leap to write #8 and call it a "conclusion." It does not at all follow logically from any previous statements. In my paradigm, for instance, there is no such thing as unnecessary suffering, so it's not even a meaningful statement--you can't technically avoid something that doesn't exist, let alone place a value judgement on whether or not one "ought" to avoid it.

And that's the problem with #8 even if the omni-Creator doesn't exist and suffering is not de facto necessary--saying that it "ought" to be avoided. Have you consulted with the masochists or the sadists on this point? I thought not...

And after that, the wheels come off this argument entirely. Unnecessary suffering causes disorder on a macro scale? Prolonged unnecessary suffering causes spiritual suffering (another "conclusion")? Do you have any research to back this up? Have you even defined your terms, like "disorder" and "macro scale" and "spiritual" (let alone "spiritual suffering")? I thought not...

And then the mother of them all, "Prolonged spiritual suffering causes spiritual attachment."

HUH???


I gotta tell you though, I am SO GLAD that clothing has an afterlife; otherwise all ghosts would be naked...

 

[RedDragon94]

I gotta tell you though, I am SO GLAD that clothing has an afterlife; otherwise all ghosts would be naked...

*shrugs* Could be another something they were attached to...?

 

[RedDragon94]

Have you consulted with the masochists or the sadists on this point? I thought not...

Does the masochist truly suffer... Or is it their pleasure to be in pain?

Sadists can go screw themselves. They aren't human.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

This is an interesting theory OP. Have you ever considered that time may not be linear? That's another potential explanation for 'ghosts'.

We perceive time to be a line, but what if it isn't at all?

Nothing is more likely if the Dharmic understanding of Ultimate Reality is true. Ultimate Reality (Brahman/Buddha/Anekantavada) presumably contains everything. Possibly even all time.

Everything in time is never not being if this is right. What we identify as time events do not begin or cease if this is true in any sense.

Therefore, ghost encounters could be seeing through the illusion of linear time? Possible?

 

[RedDragon94]

Therefore, ghost encounters could be seeing through the illusion of linear time? Possible?

Possible. But then, why would some ghosts be violent?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Possible. But then, why would some ghosts be violent?

Any number of reasons. I'll name one that immediately springs to mind. Maybe we perceive it as violence, when really the 'ghost' is no more aware of our time existing along side it's as we are vice versa.

 

[RedDragon94]

Any number of reasons. I'll name one that immediately springs to mind. Maybe we perceive it as violence, when really the 'ghost' is no more aware of our time existing along side it's as we are vice versa.

Ah, so time is cyclical? In other words, history repeats...?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Ah, so time is cyclical? In other words, history repeats...?

It's possible time is cyclic to some extent, though I make no certain knowledge claim about that. The Stoics believed something along those lines. That things happen again and again.

 

[RedDragon94]

It's possible time is cyclic to some extent, though I make no certain knowledge claim about that. The Stoics believed something along those lines. That things happen again and again.

Okay.

 

[Chris Lovel]

What is the effect of suffering? (Line indicates conclusions)
1. Suffering exists.
2. Humans cause suffering.
3. Suffering is caused by conflict.
4. Other lifeforms cause suffering too, not just humans.
5. For example, carnivores hunt to survive.
6. Suffering is inevitable.
7. Suffering is necessary.
8. Unnecessary suffering ought to be avoided.
9. Unnecessary suffering causes disorder on a macro scale.
10. Prolonged unnecessary suffering causes spiritual suffering.
11. (Further concluded) Prolonged spiritual suffering causes spiritual attachment.

Spiritual attachment= When a person's soul gets attached to an object of their desire in the midst of suffering. The object could be something that was taken from them. Spiritual attachment can last after death.

Just a theory, don't go documenting me. Anybody else have a theory on this subject?

An interesting post, some of which I do not understand. I have the impression that you equate spirit with soul. So just exactly what is soul and spirit. Why do you think a soul becomes attached rather than the person? just asking

 

[tayla]

Anybody else have a theory on this subject?

I have no reason to believe in ghosts except as hallucinations of those seeing them.

 

[Chris Lovel]

I have no reason to believe in ghosts except as hallucinations of those seeing them.

You have no reason to believe in ghosts, yet there is a plethora of information and evidence out there in web land. If you do not look you most assuredly will not find. I suspect you haven't looked because you find the concept of ghost frightening when in fact they are just soul released people who don't really understand their bodies are dead. Allow me to show you ghost are real, this is a personal story not second hand or hear-say. I was in the Merchant Navy years ago and off duty one afternoon laying in my bunk reading. A movement caught my eyes and when I looked up there was a transparent man standing about 6ft away looking at me, i.e. a ghost. So I did the reality test. What is that you ask? As I looked at the ghost I crossed my eyes. The point of that is that if the ghost was really standing there it would become double along with everything else I was looking at. Light enters the eyes and travels along the optic nerve to the visual cortex . If the ghost was hallucination I would not be seeing it through my visual system but from another part of my brain. That being so it would not look double when I crossed my eyes. The ghost looked double, ipso facto the ghost was real. Never be afraid of ghost they are only conscious energy and can't really hurt you.

 

[Skwim]

What is the effect of suffering? (Line indicates conclusions)
1. Suffering exists.
2. Humans cause suffering.
3. Suffering is caused by conflict.
4. Other lifeforms cause suffering too, not just humans.
5. For example, carnivores hunt to survive.
6. Suffering is inevitable.
7. Suffering is necessary.
8. Unnecessary suffering ought to be avoided.
9. Unnecessary suffering causes disorder on a macro scale.
10. Prolonged unnecessary suffering causes spiritual suffering.
11. (Further concluded) Prolonged spiritual suffering causes spiritual attachment.

Spiritual attachment= When a person's soul gets attached to an object of their desire in the midst of suffering. The object could be something that was taken from them. Spiritual attachment can last after death.

Just a theory, don't go documenting me. Anybody else have a theory on this subject?

Your ghosts and attached souls aside:

1. Suffering exists. Yup.
2. Humans cause suffering. Yup.
3. Suffering is caused by conflict. Yup.
4. Other lifeforms cause suffering too, not just humans.Yup.
5. For example, carnivores hunt to survive. Most of them do, but not all.
6. Suffering is inevitable. Yup
7. Suffering is necessary. Depends on the circumstance, but as a generalization, Yup.
8. Unnecessary suffering ought to be avoided. Yup.
9. Unnecessary suffering causes disorder on a macro scale. What constitutes a "macro scale"?
10. Prolonged unnecessary suffering causes spiritual suffering. Show your evidence.
11. (Further concluded) Prolonged spiritual suffering causes spiritual attachment. Show your evidence.

.​

 

[Chris Lovel]

Am I supposed to respond to that inane posting?