Mr. Super Universe, allow me to introduce you to Mr. fantôme profane.
Oh, I see you have already met. How convenient for me.
Super Universe said:
Scientists watch and deduce. They see things expanding so they say it all came from a single beginning. "An expansion!" They shout and hurry to publish it as if they've created it themselves.
Attack the character specifics of a scientist. Great debate technique, you really made a good point... although I didn't quite understand what it was, could you please reiterate?
Super Universe said:
So I should learn about evolution, should I? Perhaps you could explain it all to me? Lets start by you answering the question this time, though I have my doubts. How does evolution create a feeling of remorse in a being? Where is the advantage?
Of course a lion would not survive if it felt remorse for eating an antelope, this is the way it survives. Human beings survive by creating complex societies and through co-operation. Theft in most human cultures is not an effective survival strategy. They are usually caught and punished. Individuals who feel no remorse for theft are generally less likely to pass on their genes.
There are exceptions of course. In our society for instance it has long been more advantages to be a white collar/wall street kind of thief. Such individuals have succeeded in becoming wealthy and successful and have passed on their genes. If this continues for long enough remorse for white collar crime will actually be an evolutionary disadvantage and we will see more and more people who commit this kind of crime without remorse. And this is likely just what we are seeing.
Also keep in mind that variation within the species is an important evolutionary advantage. If remorse for theft did come about through evolution you would still expect to see some individuals who feel no remorse at all, some who feel very little and steal anyway, and the majority who feel enough remorse about such actions to refrain from them. This is because although generally theft is a disadvantage for a human individual trying to survive in society, but it can in some instances be an advantage. So evolution allows for this variation within the species. It is no accident.
p.s. this could all be explained better and more completely if you consulted a behavioral biologist.
This "not working" malarky is paying off already, people are starting to do my research for me!
Super Universe said:
Gravity is no accident? I agree 100%.
Good, although I suppose we probably disagree past this point.
Super Universe said:
So if I learn these tenets of comogony then I will suddenly have what? An understanding of how a million random things formed perfectly in the precise order to create atoms, matter and energy, space/time, gravity, all to support life, and not just life but sentient life.
Cosmogony really is not directly related to evolution.
AND, since we are on the subject, I have no doubt that it was not the case that "a million random things formed perfectly in the precise order to create atoms, matter and energy, space/time, gravity, all to support life, and not just life but sentient life," if I thought that this either
had to be the case or God existed, then I would be in church at this very moment (although it is technically not correct to synthesise God and any certain religion; I was merely using the phrase for emphasis).
Super Universe said:
Your science doesn't add up. Too many impossibilities stacked on top of each other.
Four hundred years ago, Galileo was treated with not a great amount of kindness for suggesting that satellites orbit Jupiter.
"How can this be?" The church elders asked, "Everything revolves around the world. We know that. It says so in [Book whatever]."
Now, they
proved that the world was flat:
"If the world was round, and orbits the sun," They asked, "How come people don't fall off the other side??? Your science, Galileo, Copernicus, doesn't add up."
They had no understanding, nor any way to understand, how people didn't fall off the other side of the world. Similarly we presumably don't perfectly understand how abiogenesis and evolution occured. But it is not logical to say, "..... I can't find an explanation
right now. God
must have done it."
EnhancedSpirit said:
God is petitioned every day by those who pray to him. Moses petitioned God to part the Red Sea, and God told him to do it himself. God wants us to connect to him by realizing that he is within us, not outside. He creates from within you, not from above you or beyond you. The reality you exist in was created by you, and you chose to be here. You chose your parents and you chose your circumstance. If I were to petition God it would be to lift all the veils of illusion that this material world causes so that everyone could see the TRUTH that lies just beyond our physical senses. Once you become aware of what is within you, it cannot be denied, or doubted, or questioned, it just IS.
This is one of the more logical beliefs about God. Thank you, ES.
Fantôme, frubals for you in exchange for your effort.