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Peter King (R-NY) introduces gun control legislation

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
OK, we where not there so there is no proof positive.

My point is, you can not go along with the whims of a madman. In the old days, people just went along without resistance and that did work out for some.

Not so any more. People need to fight back with everything they have. 33 people? Give me a break, Mestemia.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
33 people? Give me a break, Mestemia.
I did.
I acknowledged that you used in the heat of the moment sources.
I also acknowledge that just because I have not found anything reported about a line up after an investigation does not mean that there wasn't one.

However, given that he killed 31 people, injured more than 16 others in multiple rooms on two different floors in nine minutes, I find a line up highly unlikely.
 
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Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I did.
I acknowledged that you used in the heat of the moment sources.
I also acknowledge that just because I have not found anything reported about a line up after an investigation does not mean that there wasn't one.

However, given that he killed 31 people, injured more than 16 others in multiple rooms on two different floors in nine minutes, I find a line up highly unlikely.

You may be right. One thing for sure, he had to reload. I mean, facing death, I would rather go down fighting. Someone could have thrown a desk or stabbed him in the eye with a pencil for Gods sake.

Adult students should have the right to carry a gun on campus.

Gun free zones are becoming slaughter houses.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
My house in red. Where I live there is the rare bear, wild dogs, deer tearing up my yard, poisonous snakes there are more than people out there.


Do the numbers if you live in that hell hole you are at risk.

lol......... i live in a region where something like 7 of the worlds 10 most deadly snakes are found regularly. You have to be pretty stupid to shoot snakes in this country, i don't know about your American snakes.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
lol......... i live in a region where something like 7 of the worlds 10 most deadly snakes are found regularly. You have to be pretty stupid to shoot snakes in this country, i don't know about your American snakes.

Generally I catch them and put them in the woods, poison or not. If one is in an area I need to be in and removal is not an option then bird shot from 410 is.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Generally I catch them and put them in the woods, poison or not. If one is in an area I need to be in and removal is not an option then bird shot from 410 is.

There's a wildlife park just north of here that Steve Irwin used to run ( i don't know if you know the name, he was a big icon in Oz) and he did a demonstration as to why not to shoot some local snakes like the Brown Snake or the Tiger Snake. Both those blighters will kill you in around an hour. He said by the time you pull the trigger they'll be up your arm. Huge problems with those guys at the moment, they're washing down into the cities with the floods we've just had.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
So I guess what I am trying to say is go ahead and be a victim if you want.

Were the early Christians victims when they refused to defend them selves ?

You do know that not nonviolence was an Important part of the early Church?

It was to the point that people in the military could not even join the early Church .
 
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Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
I have often wondered how to balance faith and necessity. All I can do is defer to Genesis and the fact that we are masters of the earth. Shooting people is not right but a man is to die as Christ did defending what he loved.

Ephesians 5:25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”c 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Am am to lay down my life if necessary to defend my family which is the wife first because she is the mother of the children and they are an extension of us. If I must take up arms I will do that.

This has nothing to do with your point of non-Voilence.

This is what Jesus says about it.

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
—Luke 6:27-31. NIV

I am not telling anyone how to live. Still I have the highest respect for those who live like this. The American Protestant Christian church has rationalized there way out side of the teachings of Christ. Except for the Quakers.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Whilst i agree with whats said there it just sounds violent. Maybe us Australians are too sensitive when it comes to confrontations :p

Its sad that Americans (i've heard what you just said a lot from American friends) feel they need to be armed in fear life-threatening attacks.

Well, it's like having a fire extinguisher. You don't actually expect that you'll ever have to use it, and you don't necessarily need one, but it's still good to have one around just in case of an emergency.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
guncontrol.png

And this says a lot

I like the quote on the shirt.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
There's a wildlife park just north of here that Steve Irwin used to run ( i don't know if you know the name, he was a big icon in Oz) and he did a demonstration as to why not to shoot some local snakes like the Brown Snake or the Tiger Snake. Both those blighters will kill you in around an hour. He said by the time you pull the trigger they'll be up your arm. Huge problems with those guys at the moment, they're washing down into the cities with the floods we've just had.

Well the snakes round here have a hemo-toxin and it can kill or cause limb loss. I believe in AU most are neuro-toxin and that is faster and screws up the nervous system.

My daughter loved Erwin and I enjoyed his shows as well. I don't make a habit of killing snakes because they are good animals.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with your point of non-Voilence.

This is what Jesus says about it.

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
—Luke 6:27-31. NIV

I am not telling anyone how to live. Still I have the highest respect for those who live like this. The American Protestant Christian church has rationalized there way out side of the teachings of Christ. Except for the Quakers.

I completely understand what you are saying and that is what I said. I must find balance. I will risk hellfire for the sake of my family and my life. As God made clear in the OT kill the murderers and send them to me.

We must ask ourselves; What is just? I try not to put myself in situations where I would have to worry about these issues.

One other thing: I have come not to abolish the law. Paul clarified many things and though being passive is one thing and acceptable; allowing one to hurt your family is detestable and weak. It is going too far.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Ok so of the three cases the fourth had a gun. I think it is quite remarkable that a women had the courage to confront people with those types of weapons.

In my opinion it would have been better to stay put and call the police, but it worked.

However, taking out a gun when the criminal has his own is always a gamble and if it doesn't illicit enough fear in him will result in violence and put everyone at risk, including possible innocents who had nothing to do with the fact that a bystander wanted to play hero.

Yeah, well, this was a woman born and bred in the rural South - in that case it's really not that remarkable that she had that sort of courage. It's actually a common trait among Southern women.

And speaking of rural - she lives far out in the country. If she had called the police, by the time they got there, she'd have been raped, or bound and gagged, or worse.

As in the case when I pulled the gun, she didn't have the luxury of calling someone else to step in. She had to make the decision to defend herself immediately. Thank God she had the tools she needed in order to do so.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
Yeah, well, this was a woman born and bred in the rural South - in that case it's really not that remarkable that she had that sort of courage. It's actually a common trait among Southern women.

And speaking of rural - she lives far out in the country. If she had called the police, by the time they got there, she'd have been raped, or bound and gagged, or worse.

As in the case when I pulled the gun, she didn't have the luxury of calling someone else to step in. She had to make the decision to defend herself immediately. Thank God she had the tools she needed in order to do so.

Thank God for Southern Women. Hell some of them can even manage to keep their men in ling but threatening to shoot them with their own gun. I have had that happen to me:)
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
allowing one to hurt your family is detestable and weak. It is going too far.

For me it would be. For others like Gandhi and MLK it would be just the opposite. When the Church Father Origen was a child. The Romans came and took away his dad to be martyred. His Mom had to hide his clothes because he wanted to run out side to die with his dad.

True non-violence is much stronger and braver then resorting to force. Pacifism because of fear is weak. I was to weak to follow Gandhi so I found that the best I could do was not engaging in unnecessary violence. The highest and best of us are nonviolent. For the rest of us weaklings we do the best we can.
 
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Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Paul clarified many things and though being passive is one thing and acceptable; allowing one to hurt your family is detestable and weak. It is going too far.

What passage? Sorry you don't have an argument in the NT. Yes, the OT is very violent killing babies, genocide and all. But one of the basic rules of evangelical exegesis is the NT trumps the OT. Paul never talked about fighting for your family. This goes against the very nature of the New Testament. Right along with giving all your money to the poor.
 

Archer

Well-Known Member
Being as Christ was to the Church, Christ sacrificed himself for us as I will for my wife and family. That is my duty. Christ was in the earth so may I be. One other thing. Many of these people had no choice in the early days. They had no weapons.

We can say all we want but we only know one thing, they really had nothing to fight back with and there are no actual accounts, only stories. Yes there are martyrs in the NT but these are not the norm. There were many killed by the Romans but do we know if they even had the means to fight back?
 
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