Perpetual uninformed debating about a religion and its followers

[Audie]

I would feel the same way, if I didn’t see the person doing any fact checking, which I think would be very unlikely, seeing that kind of behavior.


“I have no need for that hypothesis.”
- Augustus De Morgan

hm. dunno what that last means.

 

[Jim]

hm. dunno what that last means.

It means that I don’t have any belief that there is a god. I don’t have any belief about anything, or at least I try not to.

 

[Audie]

It means that I don’t have any belief that there is a god. I don’t have any belief about anything, or at least I try not to.

ah so desu ka. thanks

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course.
It's a sell.
That's the bottom line.
And folks who can spotlight the pitfalls are very very wicked people!



Surely.
And what the OP has missed is that the selling religions tend to find themselves in perpetual INFORMED Debate when they are spouting bull-dust.

By the way, can I flog you some Deism today? Now Deists are lovely people, never contentious or confrontational. Clean living gentle folks..... that's your Deists........ 'umble & very quiet people.

What's a Deist?

This whole thing reminds me of the first date scene occasionally repeated, where one person (usually the man) goes on and on about themselves, and then at the end of the date she asks him to tell her one thing he knows about her. Very one way 'discussions'.

 

[Jainarayan]

What's a Deist?

Believes in a God that created the universe and its laws, set things in motion, then basically walked away stepped back to let it run on its own. Polydeism is where a group of gods had a part in creating the universe, sort of like a committee, set it in motion then stepped away. In both scenarios the Gods do not involve themselves in the universe. Most deists believe that the deist God is still worthy of worship and reverence, whether he pays attention to us or not.

 

[charlie sc]

What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.

Oh you mean those people that are arrogant of their ignorance. Yeah, you get a few of those. How can you inform someone like that? It’s very difficult. Though, you get more than these types. One thing I have to mention is that faith is particularly resistant to change.

 

[Jim]

ah so desu ka. thanks

Hai, sou desu. Welcome.

 

[Audie]

Hai, sou desu. Welcome.

One fourth Japanese and 6 weeks in Tokyo
so I am not much past ichi ni san si...

 

[siti]

Most deists believe that the deist God is still worthy of worship and reverence, whether he pays attention to us or not.

Do they? I moved in deist circles for quite a while and my experience was that most of them felt that God would not give a tuppeny cuss whether someone worshipped "him" or not - worship and reverence would be entirely irrelevant to a disengaged and disinterested deity - what most deists I know would say would be that the creation was worthy of awe and wonder...but that's not the same as worship. One deist I knew (who sadly passed away a few years back) tried to set up an online "church" for deists - it flopped miserably with only a handful of people ever having visited the site at all let alone participated in "worship" (although I don't think he would have called it that anyway).

 

[Jainarayan]

I moved in deist circles for quite a while and my experience was that most of them felt that God would not give a tuppeny cuss whether someone worshipped "him" or not - worship and reverence would be entirely irrelevant to a disengaged and disinterested deity - what most deists I know would say would be that the creation was worthy of awe and wonder...but that's not the same as worship.

Like anything else there are different flavors and approaches. We saw different approaches.

 

[oldbadger]

What's a Deist?

This whole thing reminds me of the first date scene occasionally repeated, where one person (usually the man) goes on and on about themselves, and then at the end of the date she asks him to tell her one thing he knows about her. Very one way 'discussions'.

There........... You see? I was rubbish with dates. But that was half a century ago.

Back then, an acquaintance of mine used to just walk up to women and ask them if they wanted to dance, go-out, roll in hay, whatever. He got an awful lot of slaps but he was very successful quite a lot of the time.

The first rule with 'Selling' is to discover 'Needs' and 'Gaps' because then the Needs and Gaps can be filled with the service, product ...... or RELIGION!

So, may I ask, do you find yourself unfulfilled in your life and wondering how to save the World whilst assuring yourself of a five-star existence in a 'heaven' afterwards?

You need to understand that most religions cannot offer a heaven even, because such followers are destined for eternal unrelenting and dreadful agony... ..... forever!

Unfortunately, Mr Prospective Follower, Deism is full of folks who have already been told that this fate awaits them, so on this occasion we cannot offer you any adequate afterlife ........ but have you ever thought of fitting composite doors and double glazing to your home? At least you'll be warm....... ?

 

[oldbadger]

Most deists believe that the deist God is still worthy of worship and reverence, whether he pays attention to us or not.

Yes...... in a way that is true.

The nearest title that a Deist might find for the Deity is 'Nature', and I have to say that I can watch, adore and revere Nature all life long.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes...... in a way that is true.

The nearest title that a Deist might find for the Deity is 'Nature', and I have to say that I can watch, adore and revere Nature all life long.

That was my mother's God.

 

[Audie]

Do they? I moved in deist circles for quite a while and my experience was that most of them felt that God would not give a tuppeny cuss whether someone worshipped "him" or not - worship and reverence would be entirely irrelevant to a disengaged and disinterested deity - what most deists I know would say would be that the creation was worthy of awe and wonder...but that's not the same as worship. One deist I knew (who sadly passed away a few years back) tried to set up an online "church" for deists - it flopped miserably with only a handful of people ever having visited the site at all let alone participated in "worship" (although I don't think he would have called it that anyway).

You know, they recently were able to detect
gravity waves,an extremely subtle phenomenon

So far, no device has ever been able to
detect the existence of any sort of god.

When I am feeling snarky, I say god
is similar to batboy and his secret moon-
lab, that is, they share all the same
characteristics with unicorns and all other
things that do not exist.

But, let us say that somehow, some day, the
existence of some sort of supreme power.
a god, is detected.

Then what? Start chanting? Crawl up a mountain?
Burn some ghost money? Construct a fancy stone
building?

What is an appropriate response to this knowledge?

There are things to do if you detect some lava
headed your way.

But what do you do about discovering god?

Is there anything you are somehow called on
to do upon detecting "god"? How would
you know what to do?

Being a "Deist"seems about as pointless
as anything could manage to be.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.

Its analogous to a brawl in a bar, and there are several types of people who get into this. Here are their MTG cards:

Drunken Brutes:
Some people love a brawl and thrive in it, and think as long as there is no blood its legal. These are the ones who just like to get into it. They step out of the bar and just start hitting each other. Usually they are under 24 years of age.

Defenders of Honor:
Some people are fixated upon an idea that they are trying to get across, and it can take many cycles of effort before they realize it can't be done. Its like some guys fighting for a girl's attention. Sometimes these ones get a black eye, then walk away. If they stay involved they wind up in jail, charged with murder, lose all their money, etc.

Nasty Married Couples:
There are also team-ups. Some people don't really agree on things and may not even have a clue but have each other's backs. They choose a mark and then toy with it cruelly.

Quiet Corner:
There is a quiet corner, usually somewhat dark. Nobody wanders over there, because there are scary people in it. Most of their fights are invisible. They understand one another's techniques so well that they can argue with eyes only. Every once in a while one says "I died!" The other one says "Good fight."

 

[oldbadger]

So far, no device has ever been able to
detect the existence of any sort of god.

Try opening your eyes.......... wonderful devices, eyes.

Being a "Deist"seems about as pointless
as anything could manage to be.

You once said something to the effect that our London cleaner air programs were kind of pointless.

So your opinions about Deism seem to fit with that as well.

Deism is all about Nature, I think.

 

[Audie]

Try opening your eyes.......... wonderful devices, eyes.


You once said something to the effect that our London cleaner air programs were kind of pointless.

So your opinions about Deism seem to fit with that as well.

Deism is all about Nature, I think.

If your eyes see things that are not there, that
would explain how you saw me criticize your
clean air program.

 

[oldbadger]

If your eyes see things that are not there, that
would explain how you saw me criticize your
clean air program.

Oh that is wonderful news! Really!

So, in fact, you think that the vehicle daytime charging zone and the additional clean-vehicle only zone in London is a step in the right direction?

Well I never did.......... how heart-warming.

 

[Audie]

Oh that is wonderful news! Really!

So, in fact, you think that the vehicle daytime charging zone and the additional clean-vehicle only zone in London is a step in the right direction?

Well I never did.......... how heart-warming.

Goodness, such a snark storm! What are you on about?
I never even heard of your London zones, and frankly,
my dear, I dont give a damn.

 

[siti]

So far, no device has ever been able to detect the existence of any sort of god.

You don't "detect" the existence of deities, you invent them for the purposes of illuminating or illustrating important aspects of the relationship between humans and the greater reality they are part of. Of course detecting gravity waves serves the same purpose - its part of a story we tell ourselves so that we can attempt to better understand the greater reality we are part of - atoms and quarks and stars and planets are other parts of that story. They're there alright - its just we can't see some of them. But it is a story and one that is destined to continue to change as we invent more and more sophisticated elements (of the story) and instruments to "detect" them with. There is no way to see the world as it really is - so we just have to do the best we can - and tell ourselves ever more convincing stories. I'm OK with God (even an absquatulating, navel-gazing one) being one of those stories.

Being a "Deist"seems about as pointless as anything could manage to be.

Being anything seems about as pointless as being a deist to me - as far as I can tell, the worldviews on offer resemble an endless row of shovels from which we are told to take our pick...none of them are really up to the task, but we have to get by the best we can with the one that suits us best. And of course we can change them now and again if we want to - no harm in that - but we'll still have an implement that is nowhere near adequate to the task of completely understanding reality or our part in it.