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Perpetual uninformed debating about a religion and its followers

Jim

Nets of Wonder
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
People don't seem to care if anything they're saying is actually true or not, in the world of actual experience. It's a kind of mmorpg, using a fictional environment with some features resembling the world of actual experience.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.
I would be rather irritated, as I often am. Because I'd rather educate people than argue with them, I generally try to take this approach. Unfortunately, it fails more often than not.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I would try to help the person better understand the faith.
I want to ask some questions, These are real questions that I'm asking without thinking that I already know the answers. Have you ever seen people debating day after day, week after week, month after month, about some group or category of people that you're part of, without ever doing anything to inform themselves about it? Have you ever tried helping any of those people debating about it understand it better? Have you ever seen that making any difference in the way they debate about it? Really, if you ever have seen it making any difference, I would like to know more about what you did.

Now that I think about it though, the real problem for me is not so much what people think about my religion. The real problem for me is people not informing themselves about what they're debating about, and I might already be doing everything I want to do about that.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I want to ask some questions, These are real questions that I'm asking without thinking that I already know the answers. Have you ever seen people debating day after day, week after week, month after month, about some group or category of people that you're part of, without ever doing anything to inform themselves about it? Have you ever tried helping any of those people debating about it understand it better? Have you ever seen that making any difference in the way they debate about it? Really, if you ever have seen it making any difference, I would like to know more about what you did.

Now that I think about it though, the real problem for me is not so much what people think about my religion. The real problem for me is people not informing themselves about what they're debating about, and I might already be doing everything I want to do about that.
If you refer specifically to my faith, no or very rarely as it is not well known about. A lot of people misappropriate the word 'Noachide' because they want to cosy up to Jewish people and jump on the bandwagon. I just disassociate from these people.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it?
As long as it doesn't interfere with the quality of my life I don't care. Why would I?

.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.
An uninformed poster presents an opportunity to discuss things.
Ideally, their understanding improves.
It's win win!
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.

It is within one’s power to detect and stay clear of futile, petty, ego driven arguments but often I do get entangled and that leads to learning.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Now that I think about it though, the real problem for me is not so much what people think about my religion. The real problem for me is people not informing themselves about what they're debating about, and I might already be doing everything I want to do about that.

One of the problems I encounter is that the very person who is making the accusation towards another about being uninformed is either uninformed themselves, or looking at their faith through a very positive but narrow bias. So unless both parties are willing to open up, discussion is generally futile.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Now I’m thinking that people are sometimes willfully ignorant about their own religions and factions. I was already thinking of Baha’is that way, but now I’m seeing that in some of my past and present experiences with people on all sides.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I want to ask some questions, These are real questions that I'm asking without thinking that I already know the answers. Have you ever seen people debating day after day, week after week, month after month, about some group or category of people that you're part of, without ever doing anything to inform themselves about it? Have you ever tried helping any of those people debating about it understand it better? Have you ever seen that making any difference in the way they debate about it? Really, if you ever have seen it making any difference, I would like to know more about what you did.

Now that I think about it though, the real problem for me is not so much what people think about my religion. The real problem for me is people not informing themselves about what they're debating about, and I might already be doing everything I want to do about that.

And what is your religion? And what exactly do you know about your religion, or don't know about your religion? Is your religion one of simply complaining about other peoples opinions? Why not give us an example of what you consider bad opinions about your opinions/beliefs. Then maybe we could straighten you out with regard to your opinions. Other wise, you will have to live in your cave with your self held opinions/beliefs.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion,......................, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it?......................
Some of those people might know more than you think...........
Now I’m thinking that people are sometimes willfully ignorant about their own religions and factions. ...................
You see? You've answered your own question.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Part of the ignorance I'm seeing about religions, which I'm starting to suspect might be willful also, is ignorance about their stories and communities, or about their prophets and scriptures, or both. The truth about religion and religions can't be understood without considering all of those together, which I'm beginning to suspect is one of the reasons for the willful ignorance about some parts of them, on all sides. In campaigns against them, willful ignorance about their stories and communities, and in using their names and some surface features as costumes for personal philosophies, willful ignorance about all of that. Learning about all that might spoil the RP.

I see the truth and reality in religion and religions in their stories, communities, prophets and scriptures, all considered together, but in some discussions about them, maybe even most or all of them, in the place of all that I see people substituting some of the beliefs and practices that have accumulated around them, hiding their truth and reality from view.

Science also has prophets, scriptures, stories and communities, and I see the same willful ignorance about those and about religions, on all sides, in debate roleplaying games about science and religion.

If anyone is interested in the truth and reality of science and religion outside of the roleplaying games, I recommend learning more about their stories, communities, prophets and scriptures.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Some of those people might know more than you think...........

The proselytising faiths are far more interested in 'sharing' than in listening or asking questions. But I agree with you, lots of people know a lot more than others may think, but the 'other' object to just what they know.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.

I think that in any and all topics, you'll have people debating things they don't understand and/or know little about.

And what I think about it... depends on what is being said when and where and why.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I want to ask some questions, These are real questions that I'm asking without thinking that I already know the answers. Have you ever seen people debating day after day, week after week, month after month, about some group or category of people that you're part of, without ever doing anything to inform themselves about it? Have you ever tried helping any of those people debating about it understand it better?

Yes and Yes.

Have you ever seen that making any difference in the way they debate about it?

yes.


Really, if you ever have seen it making any difference, I would like to know more about what you did.

I myself didn't do anything special with the ones that changed their ways and the ones that didn't.
The difference is in the person changing his mind. Some reflected on what was being said, realized they were wrong and then subsequently their views. Others didn't do that and just stuck their heads in the sand.

That's on them off course.

Now that I think about it though, the real problem for me is not so much what people think about my religion. The real problem for me is people not informing themselves about what they're debating about, and I might already be doing everything I want to do about that.

In the case of specific religions, sure, I will fully acknowledge that I haven't spend any real time studying any of them. Some religions I know more about then others, some less. I think I'm reasonably well versed in christianity and to a lesser extent judaism and islam. I also know a thing or two about scientology and understand more or less what the ancient greek, roman, egyptian and viking conceptions of gods were like.

Of all, I probably know the least about hinduism when it concerns contemporary religions with sizeable following.

But that doesn't bother me at all.
Because they all fall under the same umbrella: religion.

Religions are a specific type of belief systems. The various religions is just content.
The way I see it, "religion" is a like a language and the various specific religions are like dialects.

In understand the language and frankly I'm just not that interested in the dialects to go an study them all. It would also be a rather arbitrary thing since I'ld have to choose which religions to study and which not, since studying ALL religions would take multiple life times. So right out the gates, i'm supposed to allready decide in advance, without any research, which religions are more likely to be true (because I'ld rather study things that are potentially correct - since i'ld have to invest quite some time in it. time that could be better spend in other ways).

So in short, I feel like I explored religion more then well enough to have a generalized opinion about it. To the point that I know that my stance on "religion" as a concept, isn't going to change by the contents of any single specific religion.

In ultra-short: knowing what I know, I consider additional study of specific religions to be a complete waste of time.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
The proselytising faiths are far more interested in 'sharing' than in listening or asking questions.
Of course.
It's a sell.
That's the bottom line.
And folks who can spotlight the pitfalls are very very wicked people!
:p

But I agree with you, lots of people know a lot more than others may think, but the 'other' object to just what they know.
Surely.
And what the OP has missed is that the selling religions tend to find themselves in perpetual INFORMED Debate when they are spouting bull-dust.

By the way, can I flog you some Deism today? Now Deists are lovely people, never contentious or confrontational. Clean living gentle folks..... that's your Deists........ 'umble & very quiet people. :p
 

Audie

Veteran Member
What would you think, how would you feel, about people using your religion, or atheism if you're an atheist, or science if you love science, as a battleground for debating, as if they know something about it, without doing anything at all to inform themselves about it? As I was typing that question, I realized remembered that most debating in Internet forums is like that, regardless of the topic.

How do you feel about "debating" someone who
"knows" he is right, coz god told him, and nothing
from a crowbar to an A bomb would ever convince
them otherwise. Did Adam and Eve encounter
dinosaurs say. Some figure they did, and that they
get this knowledge from god. They know they are right,
nothing contrary could be.

Are you one such, in your belief that there is a god?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
How do you feel about "debating" someone who "knows" he is right, coz god told him, and nothing from a crowbar to an A bomb would ever convince them otherwise.
I would feel the same way, if I didn’t see the person doing any fact checking, which I think would be very unlikely, seeing that kind of behavior.
Are you one such, in your belief that there is a god?
:p
“I have no need for that hypothesis.”
- Augustus De Morgan
 
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