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'Peril'

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by pearl, Sep 15, 2021 at 10:06 AM.

  1. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Woodward and Costa write in "Peril" that the memo was also one of the reasons Milley was concerned Trump could go rogue after the November election, and prompted Milley after the January 6 insurrection to take steps to try to limit Trump from launching military strikes or nuclear weapons unless he was consulted.

    On Jan. 8, acting out of what the book reportedly describes as shock and fear due to the insurrection, Gen. Milley purportedly gathered a group of senior military officers to “review the procedures for launching nuclear weapons.”
    The 5 Biggest Bombshells In The Woodward-Costa Book | Talking Points Memo

    Is this believable?
     
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  2. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    I will give Woodward the benefit of the doubt, but would like confirmation.
     
  3. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Gen. Milley Defends His Call To A Chinese General About Trump's Rhetoric And The U.S.

    Gen. Mark Milley says he was conducting the duties of his office — not circumventing presidential authority — when he spoke to his Chinese counterpart shortly before last year's election, according to a statement the Pentagon issued Wednesday.

    Milley's actions in the final months of former President Donald Trump's term made headlines this week after a new book by journalists Bob Woodward and Robert Costa said the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was attempting to head off a potential armed conflict when he called Chinese Gen. Li Zuocheng.

    The book, Peril, is not yet released. It describes Milley as being "fearful Trump might spark war," according to The Washington Post.

    Milley confirms that he spoke to Li and other world military leaders in October and in January. But Joint Staff spokesperson Col. Dave Butler said those communications were part of his normal duties and responsibilities "conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability."

    Butler also said Milley did not break protocol in the way he got in touch with Li.​
     
  4. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

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  5. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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  6. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Something has gone wrong…
    It seems you clicked on a bad link and stumbled upon our 404 page​

    I wonder why they pulled it. In any case, perhaps you could paraphrase some of the key points.
     
  7. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

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  8. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    If it's not actually treason, it's borderline and deserves investigation. It depends on how you interpret the need to uphold the constitution to ensure a peaceful transition, irrespective of who is the current occupant of the office of the President of the United States, and legal requirement for the military to reject illegal orders (under Article 90 of the Code of Military Justice).

    What's more alarming is this is preparation for the event that the military would need to defy Trump giving an illegal order, either to attack another country unprovoked, or to deploy the Armed forces on US territory (under the Insurrection Act).

    The bottom line is that process for using nuclear weapons by an US president is predicated on speed, with a decision time in the matter of minutes with no real ability to oppose such orders. The system wasn't designed to give the military opportunity to refuse an order and it was assumed that an unstable president would have been removed by the 25th Amendment or Impeachment. If Trump had (hypothetically) given such an order to launch a first strike on China for example, Miley options for refusing it were limited and required basically unanimous support from subordinates to send a message to everyone further down in the military hierarchy not to treat the orders as legitimate.

    I'd lean towards putting Miley on trial to ensure the law is upheld, as short of forcing Pence to enact the 25th Amendment (or perhaps someone further down the line of succession), this sounds as close to transferring the power to the military as you can get for the duration of the last weeks of Trump's term. The 25th Amendment and Impeachment were meant to prevent this situation for happening but were not used. We got lucky that this isn't even worse. What makes Miley's behaviour so significant is weighing the unorthodox nature of the decisions in a chain of command vs the risks of what might have happened had he not taken those steps. It's a grey area at best that the constitution was never designed to cover. This kind of scenario belongs in works of fiction, but here we are.

    [Edit. Here are some more extracts from the book in the video below. As someone in the comment sections put it: "Military tries to prevent a war and is accused of criminal behaviour. Welcome to flat earth!"]
     
    #8 Laika, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:21 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021 at 1:42 PM
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  9. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    He deserves a medal.
     
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  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Yea I heard that as well.

    I'm more interested in the specifics as to why a US general got so triggered the first place.

    It sounds like something more is at play here being China was involved.
     
  11. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Possibly a concern given Trump's insistence that China is the enemy responsible for covid. The whole thing kind of reminds me of the movie 'The Dead Zone' where Christopher Walken, after awaking from a coma had the gift of 'seeing' the future and after meeting a presidential candidate saw him pushing the 'button' and decided he would have to kill him in order to prevent a nuclear war.
     
  12. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Because he was concerned that the bat**** crazy Trump would try to launch nukes.

    Is that specific enough?

    If you want more specifics, wait for the audiobook to come out and listen for yourself.
     
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    The president alone cannot fire any nukes by himself.

    The whole notion of a rouge Trump comes off as a bit crazy at the onset and obviously is not very believable givin the checks and balances involved in initiating a nuclear strike by the US.

    Still, since Tom Clancy isn't around, people need that itch to scratch and the book apparently fits the bill.

    The article is a great plug for that book and I'm sure it's going to sell like hotcakes.
     
  14. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

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    To enlighten our members here are the steps to "fire a nuke" Below copied from: Here's how easy it is for the US president to launch a nuclear weapon
    It can take the US government just minutes to launch a nuclear weapon. Here's how it would work.

    The president has the sole authority to call for a nuclear strike. Once the call is made, a series of critical steps follow.

    The president first meets with top military advisers. The meeting would take place in the Situation Room. If the president is traveling, a call is made on a secure line.

    If the president still wants to go through with the strike, the order is verified. To authenticate the order, a challenge code is read to the president. It's usually two phonetic letters like "Delta-Echo."

    The president then receives the "biscuit", a laminated card that's always near the president. The biscuit has the matching response to the challenge code.

    The Pentagon then broadcasts an encoded message to missile crews. The message is only about the length of a standard tweet.

    It includes the war plan, "Sealed Authentication System" or (SAS) codes, and the actual missile launch codes. When the launch crews get the message they open lock safes to obtain the SAS codes. These codes are compared with the SAS codes included in the message.

    If fired from a submarine the captain, executive officer, and two others authenticate the launch order. Fifteen minutes after receiving the order, the missiles could be ready to launch.

    If fired from land, there are 50 missiles controlled by 5 launch crews in different locations. Each crew "votes" for the launch by turning their keys at the same time.

    There are five different keys, but only two need to be turned to launch the missiles. In this scenario, the missiles could be ready to launch just minutes after the president's order. Once the missiles are launched, there's no turning back.
     
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  15. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Did Tom Clancy write about an American president attempting to overthrow an election? Ten years ago (BT - Before Trump) people would have laughed at such a nonsensical plot.
     
  16. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    In other words, Trump could say whatever about the feelings of the military leaders and then continue to process to launch the nukes.
     
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  17. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It sure sounds like something Tom Clancy would write. It has nukes and everything!
     
  18. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

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    No
    Didn't read the entire procedure did you...
    I will just repeat the procedure you are asking about
    The president first meets with top military advisers. The meeting would take place in the Situation Room. If the president is traveling, a call is made on a secure line.

    If the president still wants to go through with the strike, the order is verified. To authenticate the order, a challenge code is read to the president. It's usually two phonetic letters like "Delta-Echo."

    The president then receives the "biscuit", a laminated card that's always near the president. The biscuit has the matching response to the challenge code.
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    So, I read the procedure. And I read your reprint with the italicized bold red letters. There is nothing there that prevents the president from going rogue, at least to my tired eyes. He calls the bunker, or a willing senior officer, asks for the reading of the challenge code, opens the briefcase, gets the biscuit and reads the matching response.


    If I'm wrong, please show where - specifically.
     
  20. esmith

    esmith Veteran Member

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    I'm mistaken,.
    from:Gold Codes - Wikipedia
    Gold Codes are generated daily and provided by the National Security Agency (NSA) to the White House, The Pentagon, United States Strategic Command, and TACAMO. For an extra level of security, the list of codes on the card includes codes that have no meaning, and therefore the president must memorize where on the list the correct code is located. The concept behind the codes is that they permit the president to positively identify themself as the commander-in-chief and thereby authenticate a launch order to the National Military Command Center
    As commander-in-chief, the president is the only individual with the authority to order the use of nuclear weapons.[10] The National Command Authority comprising the president and Secretary of Defense must jointly authenticate the order to use nuclear weapons.[6] It is argued by Franklin Miller that the president has almost single authority to initiate a nuclear attack since the Secretary of Defense is required to verify the order, but cannot legally veto it.[11] However, Section 4 of the 25th Amendment of the Constitution allows for the vice president, together with a majority of cabinet heads or Congress, to declare the president disabled or unfit to execute the duties of the office.[12]

    So, in other words only if Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is envoked can a nuclear strike be adverted.
    Of course nothing says the National Military Command Center can't refuse to send the order. But this is highly unlikely.
     
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