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Pergatory

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ceridwen018, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Sorry but Purgatory is NOT biblical doctrine. It is a teaching of tradition started in 1439 at the Council of Florence and has its origin in pagan doctrine. It's totally bogus. According to Catholicism, the death of Jesus cannot save you from the punishment for sin. The sacrifice of Christ paid only for the guilt of sin, not the penalty. Therefore we must all go to purgatory, but our loved ones can help to shorten our vacation in purgatory. And only the Catholic church has the power to do this because the pope holds the triple keys to heaven, hell and purgatory. There are a few exceptions who go immediately to heaven: Jesus, Mary, those who have been granted a special indulgence by the Pope(This has been used to recruit armies to fight heretics), and those who have excess of good works, and those connected to certain societies like the Scapular, the Sacred Heart, and Purgatorian Societies.

    If there is a purgatory, which I do not believe, why is it John. 19: 30 says - When Jesus received the vinegar he said "it is finished" and bowed His head and gave up the Spirit. Hebrews 10: 11,12 - Every priest daily offers the same sacrifices time after time that can never take away sins. But He, having offered one sacrifice for sin for all time, sat down at the right hand of God. Matthew 12:31 - ... People will be forgiven any sin , but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

    1 Corinthians. 3:15 - If any man's work is burned up he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
    The previous verse talks about the quality and results of our work on this earth. We build on the foundation of Jesus Christ with what we have, precious stones or straw. Some people's work will be destroyed on the day of judgment - but the person will be saved whether or not the quality of his work will survive.

    1 Peter 1:7 - so that the proof of your faith being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
    This is a praise of the power of faith. The verse says that even gold is perishable, but our inheritance from God will not perish (verse 4) . Although we go through hard trials, our faith helps us to rejoice and so our faith is more precious than gold which melts in the fire - but our faith will not waver in hard times.

    1 Peter 3:19 - in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison
    This talks about the suffering for what is right not what is wrong. Being good even if you have to suffer for it - because Christ did the same for all of us. This earth and sin itself is a prison where we cannot escape from death. Sin is called slavery and God came to rescue us from this life of sin.
     
  2. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    As do many Christian traditions. Very interesting that so many are anware of that fact.
     
  3. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I'm aware of it. Religions are just a psychological crutch and they are here to administer the latest psychological panacea to tamper with the word of God to fit the latest humanist theories. Religion is more or less just a popularity contest. They all seek to do their own will, because church pews are empty, because "studies show" we are not reaching this group or that group, etc.. Christ, to me, has shown just how hollow their grasp is and I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative, I'm not mainline, I'm not even "other", I just am.
     
  4. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hiya trueblood,

    Hmmmmmmm

    Zechariah 14
    20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
    21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

    If Jesus' sacrifice is final and complete, why will there be sacrifices needed in Jerusalem after the death and Resurrection of Jesus?

    :)

    Scott
     
  5. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Well the prophecies about Jerusalem make it clear that the Holy City will be in the center of world events in the end time. Israel, against overwhelming odds, has survived. The Roman Empire was devoured and spoiled. The Russian czar became a prey. The German Reich was destroyed. And now, miraculously, Israel is back in the land. There will be a rebuilding of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem by orthodox Jews and the renewal of ancient forms of worship prescribed in the law of Moses.
     
  6. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    a friend of mine read a book on hell, heaven, and purgatory. she stated that the average time of stay is 40 years, which makes sense. and by the way scott i have a doctorates in theology, if that helps u any at all
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    trueblood,

    You never answered my question.
     
  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I'm not exactly sure then. I know its a prophecy and prophecy is kinda hard to answer, especially when it hasn't happened yet.
     
  9. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    trueblood,

    Well, when the prophecy IS fulfilled (or else it's not prophecy, it's a lie) answer this:
    If Jesus' sacrifice is final and complete, why will there be sacrifices needed in Jerusalem after the death and Resurrection of Jesus?

    :)
     
  10. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Well, the prophecy pertains to Israel. I'm not sure if its before the rapture of the church or after it but anyways Orthodox Jews will rebuild the temple and start up the old traditional sacrifice of animals, like according to the law of Moses. Once this happens (the sacrifice of animals;note that they do not practice this anymore) it sparks a countdown to Armageddon or the "time of trouble for Jacob". The prophecy doesn't say the "sacrifices" are "needed" to remove sin but instead the "sacrifices" are "needed" to fullfill the prediction.
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    trueblood,

    Thanks for your answer!

    :)
     
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