Are people who claim to know God liars?

[Nakosis]

My criticism of Religion is the claim to know anything about God, at all.

My position is man knows nothing about God. I assume this is the default position of atheists. Am I wrong?

People who say God is whatever... loving, all powerful, Just, merciful, has a plan for all of us etc.
From whence does this knowledge about God come from?

I know nothing about God and neither do you. You can have faith that God possesses whatever properties you feel God should possess, but based on what? Imagining if a God did exist, this is what God ought to be like?

You have the Bible, Quran etc... So why do you feel these folks were in any better position than you to have knowledge about God.

Not that I'm going to go about calling believers liars. I just think they feel a certainty that they don't actually possess.

 

[DavidFirth]

My God is powerful enough to reveal Himself to me through His Spirit. He has done so but of course I cannot prove it scientifically.

Also, I believe He has revealed Himself in what He has made and in His Son Jesus.

 

[sayak83]

My criticism of Religion is the claim to know anything about God, at all.

My position is man knows nothing about God. I assume this is the default position of atheists. Am I wrong?

People who say God is whatever... loving, all powerful, Just, merciful, has a plan for all of us etc.
From whence does this knowledge about God come from?

I know nothing about God and neither do you. You can have faith that God possesses whatever properties you feel God should possess, but based on what? Imagining if a God did exist, this is what God ought to be like?

You have the Bible, Quran etc... So why do you feel these folks were in any better position than you to have knowledge about God.

Not that I'm going to go about calling believers liars. I just think they feel a certainty that they don't actually possess.

From a Hindu perspective, my belief comes from my experiences during meditation.

 

[YmirGF]

From a Hindu perspective, my belief comes from my experiences during meditation.

My experiences during meditation helped tremendously to dissolve my remaining need for god concepts entirely.

 

[Mister Silver]

I voted "They are self deluded".

They no more have knowledge of god's existence than a mentally ill person in the psyche ward has knowledge of the existence pertaining to the voice in his head.

 

[Kenny]

Some know God...
Some think they know God...
Some lie...
Some are deluded...
Some need to see a psychologist.

 

[Kemosloby]

We know about God by the Son.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My criticism of Religion is the claim to know anything about God, at all.

My position is man knows nothing about God. I assume this is the default position of atheists. Am I wrong?

People who say God is whatever... loving, all powerful, Just, merciful, has a plan for all of us etc.
From whence does this knowledge about God come from?

I know nothing about God and neither do you. You can have faith that God possesses whatever properties you feel God should possess, but based on what? Imagining if a God did exist, this is what God ought to be like?

You have the Bible, Quran etc... So why do you feel these folks were in any better position than you to have knowledge about God.

Not that I'm going to go about calling believers liars. I just think they feel a certainty that they don't actually possess.

I think a fair number of people are sincere and expressing their beliefs, so I wouldn't think of them being as liars.

However, I do think people believe in things that simply are not true.

 

[sayak83]

My experiences during meditation helped tremendously to dissolve my remaining need for god concepts entirely.

I was speaking of the impersonal absolute reality Brahman. There is a kind of creative ferocity to it, almost a force that transmutes abstract possibilities into actualities of existence. Anyways...

 

[The_Fisher_King]

My criticism of Religion is the claim to know anything about God, at all.

My position is man knows nothing about God. I assume this is the default position of atheists. Am I wrong?

People who say God is whatever... loving, all powerful, Just, merciful, has a plan for all of us etc.
From whence does this knowledge about God come from?

I know nothing about God and neither do you. You can have faith that God possesses whatever properties you feel God should possess, but based on what? Imagining if a God did exist, this is what God ought to be like?

You have the Bible, Quran etc... So why do you feel these folks were in any better position than you to have knowledge about God.

Not that I'm going to go about calling believers liars. I just think they feel a certainty that they don't actually possess.

What's your definition of 'knowledge' here?

 

[sun rise]

One, to call someone a liar is to imply deliberate falsehood. Someone could be mistaken or deluded or have an experience which the person thinks mistakenly is an experience of God. And of hypocritical saints, the Sadguru Tukaram once was reported to have said Let their dead conscience be burnt; it is no sin to thrash them!

Second, while the overwhelming vast majority of people don't have experience of God, I believe there are a few who have had including: St. Francis of Assisi, Tukaram, Ramakrishna, Kabir, Rumi and Hafiz.

So I don't believe that I have, with my limited intellect, know that which is beyond the limited intellect. But it is possible to have "smelled the perfume" of the rose without "seeing" the rose.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm in the self deluded camp.

Wait....uh oh....phrasing....

 

[Brickjectivity]

I had to vote 'Other'. Knowing God means that nobody else can tell you what is right or wrong. It means you do not belong to the government or to your landlord or to anyone else. It does not, however, stop fascism from existing. When a person betrays another they betray God as well. When they say "I know God but you do not" is when the fascism begins, but a person who really believes God is the highest authority will not say that usually or not easily. They will wince about things like that, and they will feel uncomfortable when they are told to agree about things they don't agree with. They might be taught to be oppressive or to accept things that they do not agree about, but they will struggle with it and will give indications. For example they will want to make sure everything that they say is true, and they will not feel comfortable saying things that they feel are unsubstantiated. Politeness is a good sign. In other words they will not wish to oppress other people. Humility before God can be the beginning of freedom for a person trapped by an oppressive system.

 

[Nakosis]

What's your definition of 'knowledge' here?

Facts, information that a person has acquired through personal experience that can be objectively verified.

 

[Nakosis]

I had to vote 'Other'. Knowing God means that nobody else can tell you what is right or wrong. It means you do not belong to the government or to your landlord or to anyone else. It does not, however, stop fascism from existing. When a person betrays another they betray God as well. When they say "I know God but you do not" is when the fascism begins, but a person who really believes God is the highest authority will not say that usually or not easily. They will wince about things like that, and they will feel uncomfortable when they are told to agree about things they don't agree with. They might be taught to be oppressive or to accept things that they do not agree about, but they will struggle with it and will give indications. For example they will want to make sure everything that they say is true, and they will not feel comfortable saying things that they feel are unsubstantiated. Politeness is a good sign. In other words they will not wish to oppress other people. Humility before God can be the beginning of freedom for a person trapped by an oppressive system.

How do you know doesn't prefer ruthless people?

 

[Nakosis]

My God is powerful enough to reveal Himself to me through His Spirit. He has done so but of course I cannot prove it scientifically.

Also, I believe He has revealed Himself in what He has made and in His Son Jesus.

Lots of folks feel this way, yet they claim different things about the God that's been revealed to them. Are those who claim knowledge of a different God than you are they mistaken, deluded, liars? Or can God reveal himself as a different God to different people?

So if I talk to God and God tells me things, should I accept this personal revelation of God and ignore what anyone else claims about God?

 

[DavidFirth]

Lots of folks feel this way, yet they claim different things about the God that's been revealed to them. Are those who claim knowledge of a different God than you are they mistaken, deluded, liars? Or can God reveal himself as a different God to different people?

So if I talk to God and God tells me things, should I accept this personal revelation of God and ignore what anyone else claims about God?

I would have to break site rules to answer the first 2 questions.

For the last question, if and only if what is revealed to you is 100% truth and is in 100% compliance with the scriptures. Much of what I have been told is scripture that I had forgotten about.

 

[Nakosis]

From a Hindu perspective, my belief comes from my experiences during meditation.

Does that include or not include a God.

I followed a Hindu Guru for a few years. I could actually see/hear the God I was taught to meditate on.

When I was a Christian, I had a personal relationship with Jesus. When a Druid, I saw the nature spirits dancing.

Which was my real experience of God?

 

[Brickjectivity]

So if I talk to God and God tells me things, should I accept this personal revelation of God and ignore what anyone else claims about God?

Humility makes it work. You just don't put yourself above others. You recognize that you can be wrong.

 

[Nakosis]

I would have to break site rules to answer the first 2 questions.

For the last question, if and only if what is revealed to you is 100% truth and is in 100% compliance with the scriptures. Much of what I have been told is scripture that I had forgotten about.

Did God tell you this or is this a doctrine of your religion?

If I honestly read the Bible, I find it vague enough to find an interpretation which could support what "God" has revealed to me. Finding a way to interpret scripture to fit my experience was not much of a hindrance. Yet based on all of this, I still found it difficult to get Christians to agree much on anything about God. All of them sincere. All of them willing to show how the Bible supported their experience of God yet there is little unity among Christians when it comes to God.

In fact I used to pray for understanding of a troubling passage that Christian would argue over. The answer would be given to me which made to me all the sense in the world. Which also made most them other Christians wrong. So this accept this as truth revealed to me by God even though other Christians claimed the truth revealed to them didn't agree?

Endless arguments among Christians about scripture supporting their knowledge about God. All sincere, all true believers.