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People who aren't worshipping Jesus, who are they worshipping?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Desert Snake, May 5, 2015.

  1. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    That certainly changes the crucifixion 'story line.' lol
     
  2. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    Ah, ok. I see. Hmm.....

    May I ask where you derive this belief? Going with the story, Jesus never considered himself God. (or to be worshiped as god)
     
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    This is fairly traditional.
    Are you sure about Jesus never considering Himself to be G-d? I think that that is an interpretation.
    Anyways, I don't get my beliefs ''from'' the Bible, the Bible is a text that goes along with my religious beliefs, to an extent. There are interpretational verses, as well.
     
  4. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    What does Jesus PBUH Say:

    But Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"


    So worship Him alone, our God and his God.

    If Jesus pbuh was God why did he say God is greater than him?
    If Jesus pbuh was God why did Satan try to deceive him and promise him to give the kingdom of heavens?
    If Jesus was God why did he say " i do the will of God".
    If jesus was god why did the people at that time see him as prophet?
    If Jesus was God why didnt he teach the people about Trinity by mentioning clearly that by the name, and why didnt he ask the people to worship him as God?


    If he was God would he say this:


    28One of the Scribes approached him and he heard them debating and he saw that he had answered them beautifully and he asked him, "Rabbi, Which is the first commandment of all?" 29Jesus (Peace be upon him) said to him, "The first of all the commandments: 'Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.' " 30"'And you shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your God with your whole heart and with your entire soul and with your entire mind and with all your power.' This is the first commandment" 31"And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32And that scribe said to him, "Excellent, Rabbi! You have spoken the truth, for he is One, and there is not another outside of him." 33"And for a man to love him with all the heart and with the entire mind and with all the soul and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34But Jesus , seeing that he had answered wisely, answered and said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God." And no man again dared to question him.



    Amazing conversation between the rabbi Jesus peace be upon him and one of the Torah experts! Indeed if trinity was truth wouldnt Jesus pbuh take the time and effort to teach him about that?
     
    #24 Servant_of_the_One1, May 5, 2015
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
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  5. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    What I find amusing, is how people, who don't believe in the type of Christianity, that they purport to be the ''correct'' version, tell me that that is the ''correct interpretation''. Does this really make sense? You are telling me an interpretation is correct, but is actually false, and at the same time, telling me that my version, my beliefs, are not ''correct'' Christianity.
     
  6. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Your interpretation is not in line with Bible.

    Rabbi Jesus pbuh clearly disagrees with you!

    U claim divinity for him, while he preached the Oneness of God.

    Pls read about the Great Commandment. Jesus commanded you to worship NOT Him, But God alone. I didnt command you to do that,

    Wouldnt he have said if he was god: Hear O Israel Worship Trinity, Three Persons in One God, Surely Iam One of them.

    Or :
    Hear O Israel, worship Me, Iam the Incarnated Father.

    Or
    Hear O Israel, you shall worship My Father and Me alone, for iam his begotten son!
     
    #26 Servant_of_the_One1, May 5, 2015
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  7. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Assalamu Alaikum
    Lol! Proving my point. Anyways, Xianity is not defined by people just ''reading the text'', and ''figuring out'', what the beliefs are. It's like Judaism, you don't just read the OT and then think you know everything about Judaism, or even Hebraic or Judaic belief. You have an idea, but the religious beliefs are not defined by the book. The Book/s/ describe aspects of the beliefs, and often can be interpreted in different ways.
    Aside from that, I'm referring to the logic of someone who left Xianity, especially, thinking it's false, then telling me that their ''version'' /the false one/, is the ''correct'' interpretation.
    /This was not really directed at you, Islam has it's own beliefs regarding Jesus, I was making a general comment, one could apply it to other subjects, as well, I suppose.
     
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  8. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    Peace be upon you too.

    Oh, it seems there is atheist, hindu atheist and muslim in the wrong thread :)
    The topic is very similar to other threads: Is Jesus God or did he say worship me.
    Thats the reason i gave comments lol.


    @Deidre get ready for ramble. This thread is for people like u :p
     
  9. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    I'm guessing whoever said this was talking about God the Father. It's strange though, I always thought that Christianity teaches Jesus saved us and holy spirit bridges tit
     
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The gap idea doesn't make sense to me. I think it's a misunderstanding, from Scripture. I think that what is meant is, that praying to Jesus is the same as praying to the ''father''. The father is actually metaphor, imo. That is why the Bible is so liberal with the Deific titles. I don't think people started thinking that Jesus wasn't God, until later, when the beliefs were more unknown to the general populace, and various 'thinkers' started getting involved with interpretation of Scripture.
     
    #30 Desert Snake, May 6, 2015
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  11. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    I worship the single God, the creator the non-created, Who's unique in nature of all, Who's never been born nor had offspring, Who does not feel sleepy nor sleeps, the all mighty Whose knowledge covers every where, time and place Who knows the past, the now and the future...

    Shawurma?

    Edit:
    Wait, I can't see how such a thread is in a debate section! It's a straight question that only requires an answer based on beliefs which is not debatable because it does not suggest wrong and right. Shawurma is not debatable!
     
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  12. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I worship God.
    I am uncomfortable with the the implications of the Trinity, but would concede that such an arrangement might be possible. But it is more likely to be a second or third century construct.
    It would be rare for me to pray to Jesus. But I have no problem with the idea that Jesus and the saints and those that have gone before can intercede for us.
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I wonder who this question is directed to. Probably not me, but when has that stopped me before?

    I personally doubt Jesus ever existed as a literal person, let alone an "actual" deity. Worship I understand to be another name for devotion, which does not need an object with literal existence, and may even suit abstract concepts better than concrete ones.

    IMO worship is not about choosing a belief that is "more likely to be correct", but rather on choosing what set of values to lend prestige for and draw inspiration from. It is all about learning who you are and who you want to eventually become.

    So I guess everyone, including Jesus worshippers, is ultimately worshipping whatever values they understand to be personified in their subjects of worship.


    Beats me. It is always risky for me to presume to speak for those who believe in a literal supernatural deity.
     
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I think he did say "I and the Father are one". John 10:30
    How do you explain that, Servant? Is Jesus (PBUH) the same as Jehowah?
    I do not think the topic deserves such a nice observation. It should have been in a better topic.
     
    #34 Aupmanyav, May 6, 2015
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  15. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    God.

    And not everyone believes in the necessity of an intercessor between God and people is required. I don't.
     
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  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    According to the bible, Jesus is at the right hand of His Father. Think of it as a king and his son. The son isnt his father, but he does share in his fathers inheiritence because of his relation to his father, as the son. So the son, in that respects, rules over the kingdom given his father. If you asked the son himself is "he" the ruler, hed probably say, no, why would look to me, the only one that rules is the king.

    It just makes so much sense.

    What needs to be specified?

     
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    exactly.....

    Most Christians lean to the literal when He spoke....no one approaches the Father but by Me....

    I believe He was speaking of His teachings.
    The parables hone the manner of thought and feeling that might freely walk among the angelic.

    If you approach God without a proper discipline in hand....what reaction would happen?
     
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  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Thats odd logic. If I was not a mathematician and you were and you still had a problem with this. I had the answer, and prooved it to you, wouls I need to be experienced to give you an answer written straight forward in the math book?

    Many scholars who intepret the bible are not christian. Translators as well. If anything, an objective non christian view would give a better look into what Christ taught since no Christian can agree on it. I also find it interesting all non christians do not see Chrisf as God. JW, Jewish, and the like dont either. Yet the few who do hold the claims to what Jesus taught when all three faiths (Muslim, Jewish, and Christian) come from the same abrahamic roots, hence the same God, the God of Abraham.

     
  19. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    I explain that as in message. Indeed, Allah swt, the prophets and angels are One in message. There is no blasphemy.

    Also such verse is found in quran. It says: and who obeys the messenger has indeed Obeyed Allah. Does this mean the messenger is the same as Allah? No, it means both are one in message.

    For example i could say me and my wife are One(in harmony). Or me and my brother are One(in brotherhood).


    However if jesus pbuh said according to bible: me and the father are one together with holyspirit within Trinity system. That would be different!
     
  20. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    This is why i love islam. There is no need for priest to confess your sins. You can talk to Allah openly. He always Hears and Sees. You dont need saints or priests.

    [ Allah ] said(to Moses & Aaron peace be upon them), "Fear not. Indeed, I am with you both; I hear and I see.
     
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