Pelagianism

[Nakosis]

​

No doubt a heretic.
Seems a lot better interpretation to me.
Whatever happen to this guy?

 

[Spirit of Light]

​

No doubt a heretic.
Seems a lot better interpretation to me.
Whatever happen to this guy?

Pelican-ism

 

[Nakosis]

Pelican-ism

Yes, I've never heard much about it either.
In all my interactions with Christianity no mention was ever made.
Supposedly he was from Briton.

 

[Lain]

​

No doubt a heretic.
Seems a lot better interpretation to me.
Whatever happen to this guy?

Was condemned and died in obscurity in exile. In my opinion those beliefs are incredibly horrifying. Blessed be St. Augustine and the boys. Hilariously people have been so scared of his beliefs throughout history there have been several internal reformations and counter-reformations all in an effort to avoid his beliefs, to where at some points people have condemned as Pelagian beliefs designed to avoid being Pelagian. It's quite funny.

It gives me a mental image of theologians trampling over one another screaming "get away from the Brit!" and accidentally calling each other heretics while beating up one another in a frantic effort to run away from a guy eating a full English breakfast.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I'm interested in a certain possibility, where he was trying to smuggle indigenous celtic beliefs into the new religious system. I think he might have retained the specific hairstyle of a druid. He talks about god in nature

 

[Nakosis]

Was condemned and died in obscurity in exile. In my opinion those beliefs are incredibly horrifying. Blessed be St. Augustine and the boys. Hilariously people have been so scared of his beliefs throughout history there have been several internal reformations and counter-reformations all in an effort to avoid his beliefs, to where at some points people have condemned as Pelagian beliefs designed to avoid being Pelagian. It's quite funny.

It gives me a mental image of theologians trampling over one another screaming "get away from the Brit!" and accidentally calling each other heretics while beating up one another in a frantic effort to run away from a guy eating a full English breakfast.

Yes, them crazy Brits. Imagining anyone is going to listen to one of them.

 

[Estro Felino]

Was condemned and died in obscurity in exile. In my opinion those beliefs are incredibly horrifying

Omg...horrifying...really?
Could you elaborate?

 

[Lain]

Omg...horrifying...really?
Could you elaborate?

Anything which attributes the work of salvation or grace to us (in the way Pelagianism seems to do) disturbs my being, for not only is it contrary to the nature of created things it is contrary to the nature of grace itself, in my opinion. It is like saying we can raise ourselves from the dead, that kind of unnaturalness. Which is just as disturbing as seeing something inanimate become animate (like pants to begin walking on their own with no explanation).

 

[Estro Felino]

Anything which attributes the work of salvation or grace to us (in the way Pelagianism seems to do) disturbs my being, for not only is it contrary to the nature of created things it is contrary to the nature of grace itself, in my opinion. It is like saying we can raise ourselves from the dead, that kind of unnaturalness. Which is just as disturbing as seeing something inanimate become animate (like pants to begin walking on their own with no explanation).

Pelagius never said these things.
Pelagius just speaks of free will. Unlike Augustine, he has an optimistic vision of life, saying that a sinless life is possible.
Through free will.
Just that.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, I've never heard much about it either.
In all my interactions with Christianity no mention was ever made.
Supposedly he was from Briton.

His real name was Morgan.

 

[Lain]

Pelagius never said these things.
Pelagius just speaks of free will. Unlike Augustine, he has an optimistic vision of life, saying that a sinless life is possible.
Through free will.
Just that.

Through free will alone, or through a will prepared, disposed, and carried through in grace all the way? For I agree that it is possible to live a sinless life freely, but through and in grace alone, which is unmerited.

 

[Estro Felino]

Through free will alone, or through a will prepared, disposed, and carried through in grace all the way? For I agree that it is possible to live a sinless life freely, but through and in grace alone, which is unmerited.

This is what Luther said.

 

[Lain]

This is what Luther said.

That's what St. Augustine and St. Prosper said. Do you agree with it?

 

[Estro Felino]

That's what St. Augustine and St. Prosper said. Do you agree with it?

Absolutely not. For instance, if you read my profile, my creed is Pelagianism.

Luther was an Augustinian monk, btw.

 

[Augustus]

Seems a lot better interpretation to me.

Anyone who promotes belief based on the idea that humans are inherently good and can achieve perfection through the power of the will is dangerous.

Such is the seedbed of utopian fantasy.

 

[Lain]

Absolutely not. For instance, if you read my profile, my creed is Pelagianism.

Luther was an Augustinian monk, btw.

So through the will alone, as it is when we are born, sinlessness is possible to you? How did you come to that idea?

 

[Estro Felino]

Anyone who promotes belief based on the idea that humans are inherently good and can achieve perfection through the power of the will is dangerous.

Such is the seedbed of utopian fantasy.

I could affirm it is dangerous to affirm that sin is inevitable. Given that no person will do self-criticism. And he would do no matter what.

 

[Estro Felino]

So through the will alone, as it is when we are born, sinlessness is possible to you? How did you come to that idea?

It is possible not to harm anyone. Never.
I do not know if this is sinlessness.
But a person who has never hurt anyone is holier than a person who has.

 

[Augustus]

I could affirm it is dangerous to affirm that sin is inevitable. Given that no person will do self-criticism. And he would do no matter what.

That all humans are flawed is a pretty good starting point for a civilised society imo.

This is a good foundation for personal humility and forgiveness of others.

 

[Nakosis]

Anyone who promotes belief based on the idea that humans are inherently good and can achieve perfection through the power of the will is dangerous.

Such is the seedbed of utopian fantasy.

What is the benefit to humanity of the idea that we are unable to escape from our sinful nature?