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Pedophilia and the church. Why it's so prevalent

jojom

Active Member
I just posted this in another thread, but because I believe it's such an eyeopener, and will probably be missed by most of the crowd here, I decided to re-post it as a separate thread.
From an exceptionally interesting article on pedophilia and religion.

"One study released by Rev. Ronald Barton and Rev. Karen Lebaczq (March, 1990) for the Center for Ethics and Social Policy of the Graduate Theological Union at Berkeley, found that a quarter of all clergy have engaged in sexual misconduct.

The social myth persists that a child molester is most apt to be of a low-class breed lurking in dark hallways, interested in abduction of children he does not know. In fact, most sexual abusers of children are respectable, otherwise law-abiding people who cultivate friendly relationships with their chosen prey, and may escape detection for precisely those reasons. Research agrees that the typical child molester is able to harm large numbers of children without being caught, in part, because he has already established a trusting relationship, playing on children's sense of loyalty, vulnerability, shame, and naivete, and fortifying his power to silence them through bribery, coercion and violent threats. In the case of a molesting man of the cloth, add to these threats the supernatural ones of God's wrath or hellfire.

The largest study of pedophiles was directed by researcher, physician and psychiatrist Gene G. Abel, M.D., of Emory University School of Medicine, for the Antisocial and Violent Behavior Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health. The landmark eight-year study revealed that, "Molesters often become youth ministers, day-care workers, Boy Scout leaders, teachers, Big Brothers and pediatricians" (Dr. Abel and Nora Harlow, "The Child Abuser," Redbook Magazine, August 1987). They add, "He is often an active Christian who is involved in his church."

Although priests make up only about 10% of North American clergy, they were 40% of the accused, leaving the Catholic Church, which complains that the media are "priest-bashing," with no grounds for criticism. With outcome unknown in about a fifth of the cases, the study found that 88% of all charged clergy were convicted, with slightly lower conviction rate for priests--81%.

Why are churches often a safe harbor for criminal child molesters? There are many answers to that question. It is, in part, because children are taught to give "men of God" special deference and obedience. Sherryll Kerns Kraizer, author of Safe Child Book and a pioneer in developing sexual abuse prevention, writes: "Many children tell me that their body belongs to God." A young child who assumes his or her body is not their own, but is "owned by God," will be vulnerable to abuse by an esteemed "man of God."

Clergy, whose role includes "pastoral counseling," are trusted and sought after for confidances and guidance. Yet being a pastor is no guarantee of having had professional training, not even necessarily a degree, much less professional counseling licenses, academic credits or the necessary trained and disinterested professional attitude. Clergy are often in contact with depressed or hurting parishioners, who are expected to confess and confide deeply personal feelings. The Catholic Church's traditional ritualistic confession of "sins" sets up an opportunity for children to be inappropriately questioned by priests on intimate or embarrassing topics. Pastoral counselors join secular professionals in a field in which at least 10% of counselors admit to sexually abusing a client, while half of all counselors report treating clients who have been sexually abused by others in their profession. The power inequities during a counseling situation have led to sexually exploitative relationships that have been compared to incestuous betrayal.

Finally, churches are used to operating as though they were above the law. Unlike other nonprofit groups, churches are not required to even file information on financial arrangements, and are used to special favors and community approval. While many do not come to the rescue of the battered principle of state/church separation when it is under assault, they wave the First Amendment banner vigorously when it comes to investigations by public authorities of wrong-doing within church doors. They treat these cases as a crisis of faith, rather than as criminal actions.
The Scandal of Pedophilia in the Church - Freedom From Religion Foundation


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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Maybe it is just prevalent. This behavior was acceptable in ancient Greece. It's not like it is behavior that is condone by Christianity. Priest just happens to be in a position of authority with has contact with youths. It's a convenient position for pedophiles.Sports coaches. Political leaders who deal with youths, it probably occurs a lot. It's just currently the media focus is on church involved pedophilia so we are more aware of it.

What we are not aware of maybe just as troubling.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Maybe it is just prevalent. This behavior was acceptable in ancient Greece.
Greek pederasty was a wholly different beast from what goes on in churches. It was a relationship not dissimilar to what was found between knights & squires, though with an added sexual dimension.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Greek pederasty was a wholly different beast from what goes on in churches. It was a relationship not dissimilar to what was found between knights & squires, though with an added sexual dimension.

The point is the desire is not something that is new. It's been around forever. People desire what they desire, it's not like you're going to cure them.

The problem with any group is they tend to protect their own. Those that accept the authority of the church, the church feels obligated to protect its clergy, its reputation. There is likely a lot of pressure to deal with it internally from religious authority.
 

jojom

Active Member
The point is the desire is not something that is new. It's been around forever. People desire what they desire, it's not like you're going to cure them.
Cure them? No, but we could allow them other outlets and make it more difficult for them to act on their desires.

And, considering that "Although priests make up only about 10% of North American clergy, they were 40% of the accused," I don't think it's unfair to surmise that this can be attributed, at least in part, to the Catholic church's requirement of celibacy. IOW, the Catholic church appears to foster pedophilia. So, in the case of religion, not only the Catholic church, factors other than desire play a part.


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gsa

Well-Known Member
The point is the desire is not something that is new. It's been around forever. People desire what they desire, it's not like you're going to cure them.

The problem with any group is they tend to protect their own. Those that accept the authority of the church, the church feels obligated to protect its clergy, its reputation. There is likely a lot of pressure to deal with it internally from religious authority.

No, the desire is not anything new. But the context is: In the age of Greek pederasty, girls were also married off in their early teens (usually around 14) to men twice their age. Moreover, Greek pederasty was at least in theory a well regulated institution. None of these conditions apply today. And this is why it is not comparable today. Going outside of the norms of the institutionalized forms of these sexual relationships invited punishment. Today, the sexual relationships are actually illicit and being protected by corrupt institutions. Apples and oranges.
 

arthra

Baha'i
I'm sure there's at least a two fold process.. A pedophile is not born that way ...there are usually reasons for pedophilia.. Sometimes it can happen that the pedophile was molested themselves...sometimes they may have restrictive experiences in schools or other institutions.. I think where an adult say has unrestricted access to children there can occur abuse. Sometimes the children themselves are restricted from normal rearing from their parents.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
there is no Biblical or moral reason why priests should not be allowed to marry. this restriction was started by the catholic church and creates a large group of clergy with no sexual outlet. the temptation to turn to children is formed and could easily be eliminated if the priests were allowed to marry
 
Has it even been established that paedophilia in the church is higher than either a) the population at large or b) those who work closely with kids?

If you have a lot of employees like the church does, then you will have a lot of paedos. Toyota will have a lot also, so will Walmart and the US military will have the most. If x% of the population are paedos then x % of your employees will be. And as mentioned in the OP, organisations that work with kids are more likely to attract more than their fair share of them.

Absent any comparative data, the rate of paedophilia in the Church could actually be lower than expected. This means drawing conclusions 'celibacy makes them abusers', etc. lacks any sort of context. If paedophilia amongst priests was no higher than in other professions with access to kids then it is not really a valid speculation.

The major scandal of this is not that some priests are abusers, they are bound to be, but that the church tried to cover most of it up and turned a blind eye to abuse that it knew was going on.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Paedophilia Is likely to happen most where ever children are to be generally found.
In the same way bank robbers are only found where there are banks. Though they may otherwise live and work among any group of people.

There may well be many paedophiles who live their lives where children are scarce (but sufficient), or who have never touched a child in their lives.

It is easy to think that Paedophiles are only lurking amongst those easily defined community occupations, However as percentage of the total, such groups may make up only a minority of offenders. They are simply easier to define.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
No, the desire is not anything new. But the context is: In the age of Greek pederasty, girls were also married off in their early teens (usually around 14) to men twice their age. Moreover, Greek pederasty was at least in theory a well regulated institution. None of these conditions apply today. And this is why it is not comparable today. Going outside of the norms of the institutionalized forms of these sexual relationships invited punishment. Today, the sexual relationships are actually illicit and being protected by corrupt institutions. Apples and oranges.

I'm not here to defend the Catholic church, I don't care. However it's easy to see that the source has an agenda against religion.

The Church leadership should be criticized for protecting pedophilia. There are people who have abused their authority, no doubt. And, they should be held accountable. I just don't see this as anything unique to the church. It is a human failing. As humans are involved you're going to find these kinds of atrocities among them.
 

tonyfran

New Member
People who like to abuse old men or women, may try to get a job in a geriatric centre.
People who like to look at & touch women's pussies , may become gynecologists.
But that does not mean geriatric centres & all their staff are bad, that all gynecologists are voyeurs.
People who like to have sexual Intercourse with multiple women may become Muslim, or Jehova's Witnesses. But such people will not defame all Muslims or Witnesses.
 

jojom

Active Member
I'm not here to defend the Catholic church, I don't care. However it's easy to see that the source has an agenda against religion.
Just what agenda do you see the Freedom From Religion Foundation having?

The Church leadership should be criticized for protecting pedophilia. There are people who have abused their authority, no doubt. And, they should be held accountable. I just don't see this as anything unique to the church. It is a human failing. As humans are involved you're going to find these kinds of atrocities among them.
Thing is, as the studies show, it's disproportionately large in religious institutions, and particularly in the Catholic church. .
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Cure them? No, but we could allow them other outlets and make it more difficult for them to act on their desires.

And, considering that "Although priests make up only about 10% of North American clergy, they were 40% of the accused," I don't think it's unfair to surmise that this can be attributed, at least in part, to the Catholic church's requirement of celibacy. IOW, the Catholic church appears to foster pedophilia. So, in the case of religion, not only the Catholic church, factors other than desire play a part.


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I don't think its that simple. I think the idea of celibacy in priests was and is stupid. No offense to those who are Catholic but humans are sexual creatures. Or at least it is one aspect of our physical being. To deny that simply causes some to have to find outlets. Maybe that might be masturbation. Or in this case, its exposure to children. Too easy to manipulate them to one's proclivities. I don't think that the RCC fosters this but I do think their requirements of celibacy are wrong headed.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Just what agenda do you see the Freedom From Religion Foundation having?

I think the title is a bit of a give-away.

Thing is, as the studies show, it's disproportionately large in religious institutions, and particularly in the Catholic church. .

Actually that's not what I read. From your link...

"Studies about pedophiles (adults who prey sexually on children) have not investigated the extent of this crime within the ministry, or whether the ratio of pedophiles in the ministry is higher than that of comparable high-risk professions."

I don't see that the percentage is any larger. It may be that since this was the focus of the media, it seems more prevalent.
 

jojom

Active Member
I think the title is a bit of a give-away.
Okey, It bills itself as Freedom From Religion Foundation, not Freedom Against Religion Foundation. I assume you understand the difference.

jojom said:
Thing is, as the studies show, it's disproportionately large in religious institutions, and particularly in the Catholic church.

Actually that's not what I read. From your link...

"Studies about pedophiles (adults who prey sexually on children) have not investigated the extent of this crime within the ministry, or whether the ratio of pedophiles in the ministry is higher than that of comparable high-risk professions."

I don't see that the percentage is any larger. It may be that since this was the focus of the media, it seems more prevalent.

And I wasn't confining my remark to pedophiles. You said:

"The Church leadership should be criticized for protecting pedophilia. There are people who have abused their authority, no doubt. And, they should be held accountable. I just don't see this as anything unique to the church. It is a human failing. As humans are involved you're going to find these kinds of atrocities among them."​

And I was only addressing my remark to your larger context where you said, "There are people who have abused their authority, no doubt. And, they should be held accountable. I just don't see this as anything unique to the church. It is a human failing. As humans are involved you're going to find these kinds of atrocities among them."

Sorry if this wasn't clear.
 
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