Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

[nPeace]

I don't understand what you mean. You seem to believe that love is something metaphysical that transcends the physical processes running in our brains.
Really?

Ciao

- viole

You seem to be missing what is supposed to be responsible for what you call a physical process, and you don't seem able to explain how or why such a process exists. So why believe it's a physical process?

 

[nPeace]

I would say it is a failure in terms of shortcoming of wise leadership at all levels, but especially in the international community, because people in general tends to emulate them and follow their example.

Leadership is a combination of character and strategy, but present day leaders are too calculating in terms of selfish interests and of less character.

If earth is to progress at all levels, there has to be a progressive leadership of character at the top and lower levels, whether in official or unofficial roles. Otherwise there is bound to be regression.

Character or a higher state of consciousness is the key.

I believe there have been a few of those with character, but how do you "fight a dragon with your bare hands"... and win?

 

[viole]

You seem to be missing what is supposed to be responsible for what you call a physical process, and you don't seem able to explain how or why such a process exists. So why believe it's a physical process?

Maybe I have problems understanding what you mean, because what you ask seems too obvious to me.

All things that we feel (pain, memory of the past, compassion, hunger, anger, joy, love, hate, etc. etc) are emergent properties of processes going on within our neuronal network in that 1,3 Kg mass called a brain. And such a brain is the result of eons of evolution by natural selection. We still do not understand completely how those processes translate into conscious events, but we know there is a strong correlation between what goes on in our brain (for instance by scanning neuronal activity) and what the brain's owner feels.

And that also explains why you can change a person by only affecting its brain structure at physical level. For instance by means of hormones, chemical substances like Alcohol or LSD, degenerative neuronal decay leading to dementia, etc.

That should be evidence enough that WE are what goes on in that mass between "our" ears. And when that mass is affected in its structure and ability to transmit signals, for instance by growing old, or having hormone storms, or being totally drunk, we are someone else.

The same with religious beliefs. Or the belief in souls. They are also the product of physical processes that go on in the brain. In that case, it looks like a defensive system made up by the brain mainly motivated by the refutal of its irreversible demise and the one of our beloved ones (a sort of instinct of conservation), a need of eternal justice, a refutal to accept that we are just biological machines whose only ultimate purpose (apart from the purposes we create for ourselves) is spreading its genes, etc.

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Maybe I have problems understanding what you mean, because what you ask seems too obvious to me.

All things that we feel (pain, memory of the past, compassion, hunger, anger, joy, love, hate, etc. etc) are emergent properties of processes going on within our neuronal network in that 1,3 Kg mass called a brain. And such a brain is the result of eons of evolution by natural selection. We still do not understand completely how those processes translate into conscious events, but we know there is a strong correlation between what goes on in our brain (for instance by scanning neuronal activity) and what the brain's owner feels.

And that also explains why you can change a person by only affecting its brain structure at physical level. For instance by means of hormones, chemical substances like Alcohol or LSD, degenerative neuronal decay leading to dementia, etc.

That should be evidence enough that WE are what goes on in that mass between "our" ears. And when that mass is affected in its structure and ability to transmit signals, for instance by growing old, or having hormone storms, or being totally drunk, we are someone else.

The same with religious beliefs. Or the belief in souls. They are also the product of physical processes that go on in the brain. In that case, it looks like a defensive system made up by the brain mainly motivated by the refutal of its irreversible demise and the one of our beloved ones (a sort of instinct of conservation), a need of eternal justice, a refutal to accept that we are just biological machines whose only ultimate purpose (apart from the purposes we create for ourselves) is spreading its genes, etc.

Ciao

- viole

Are you saying scientists can alter love by affecting the brain?
If yes. Please provide evidence.

Remember, up until now you have not been able to explain your definition of love.
You said...
Love is an evolutionary adaptation. For instance, romantic love is a genetic consequence of our kids needing a long time to become independent. That requires long term stability. Therefore, “til death set us apart” is just how our brains are wired for biological reasons geared toward genes survival.

Actually all you have done is state your belief, without any explanation on how, or why your belief merits any consideration, or why I should exchange the definition I gave for the one you believe in.
So, it would be nice if we can get past this point.

Obviously, love is not like some physical thing like the sky, or animal, or protein molecule.
This is similar, it seems, to how some say that DNA is the product of a naturally formed process. Yet, they don't know or can't explain why, how, or what regarding that process.
DNA is not the product of a naturally formed process, just because one says it is. Love isn't what one says it is, just because someone describes it that way.

 

[viole]

Are you saying scientists can alter love by affecting the brain?
If yes. Please provide evidence.

Nope. But brain decay can.

Remember, up until now you have not been able to explain your definition of love.
You said...
Love is an evolutionary adaptation. For instance, romantic love is a genetic consequence of our kids needing a long time to become independent. That requires long term stability. Therefore, “til death set us apart” is just how our brains are wired for biological reasons geared toward genes survival.

Actually all you have done is state your belief, without any explanation on how, or why your belief merits any consideration, or why I should exchange the definition I gave for the one you believe in.
So, it would be nice if we can get past this point.

Well, love is attachment to one or more persons. In some cases objects. In some cases we are ready to give our lives to protect the persons we love.

And?

Obviously, love is not like some physical thing like the sky, or animal, or protein molecule.
This is similar, it seems, to how some say that DNA is the product of a naturally formed process. Yet, they don't know or can't explain why, how, or what regarding that process.
DNA is not the product of a naturally formed process, just because one says it is. Love isn't what one says it is, just because someone describes it that way.

Everything that is part of our cognition is reducible to physical processes. And that includes love. When you love someone like crazy that means that some neurons fires in a certain way in your brain.

I don't understand what the problem is. Do you think love is something metaphysical existing in a spiritual realm like souls and stuff?

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Nope. But brain decay can.

That's your evidence? It look like a claim to me.

Well, love is attachment to one or more persons. In some cases objects. In some cases we are ready to give our lives to protect the persons we love.

And?


Everything that is part of our cognition is reducible to physical processes. And that includes love. When you love someone like crazy that means that some neurons fires in a certain way in your brain.

I don't understand what the problem is. Do you think love is something metaphysical existing in a spiritual realm like souls and stuff?

Ciao

- viole

I feel we are having a problem communicating on this topic. Is that a result of misfiring neurons? Mine are not wired correctly perhaps...

 

[viole]

That's your evidence? It look like a claim to me.

Well, apparently you never met someone with advanced dementia.

I feel we are having a problem communicating. Is that a result of misfiring neurons? Mine are not wired correctly perhaps...

Well, if you believe love is metaphysical, it is entirely possible

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Well, apparently you never met someone with advanced dementia.

No. That would be evidence? How so?

Well, if you believe love is metaphysical, it is entirely possible

Ciao

- viole

Anything is possible, apparently.

 

[viole]

No. That would be evidence? How so?

Without dementia: love for X
With dementia: X not even remembered

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Without dementia: love for X
With dementia: X not even remembered

Ciao

- viole

What happened to love?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

However, he seems to be saying as you have said, that peace and security to all mankind will only come, when man submits to God. Is that correct?

Man needs to pay heed to what God has said.

The quote says this;

"...The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded....."

Thus I see that says we have to turn back to Gods advice and Laws.

Regards Tony

 

[viole]

What happened to love?

Responsible neurons gone.

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Responsible neurons gone.

Ciao

- viole

I didn't ask what happened to the neurons.
Take care viole. Over and out on this topic.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or am I missing something?

There is too much to discuss in this one post, so I started with your final question.

This is for you to decide, but we have a lot to consider about bible prophecy and the way man has interpreted it. I ask when has man ever embraced a New Message from God safe in their current thoughts? Have not all previous Messages shown how man had strayed far from the teachings, all the while they are thinking they have it right? Why is our age going to be any different, especially given the warnings in all of the Holy Scriptures.

Thus it is safe to say, we did not get it right and the appearance of Christ as promised, will repeat the need for us to change our views.

I would have been inclined to agree with what Bahaullah said here...

However, he seems to be saying as you have said, that peace and security to all mankind will only come, when man submits to God. Is that correct?

I covered that in a separate post above

I understand that you go by Bahaullah's teachings, but I go by the Bible, which I find often doesn't support or harmonize with the Bahai teachings.
For example, the idea that peace on earth is dependent on man, or that God expected such unification seems to me, contrary to what the Bible says.

I have come to see the bible in a different light and see no reason why the Lords Prayer does not indicate this.

Matthew 6:9-13 9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one."

What is evident today, is exactly what the Bible says, and prophesies.

I agree though I see it in a different light.

So, by any means necessary would, or could involve using weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), and wiping out countless civilians, bringing about permanent damage to health. True?

No that is not true But it is such a big subject, hard to cover so many thoughts in but one post. Another thread about that topic maybe.

What about terrorist? Let's look at this scenario.
Peace and Security at last! All warring nations are disarmed - except the peace makers! Rebels gather arms from corrupt money hungry officials - including WMDs that are still around. They attack unarmed nations. We have a breach of security. What is the solution?

I see this will be addressed by the Nations. They will all arise and squash any attempt to undermine the Lesser Peace.

But first we have to embrace our oneness, until we do that, we will not know the results that will be produced in humanity because of that change of mind.

There is so much in your post. I am happy to chat about it all, but need to break it down as unfortunately I run out of time.

Peace be with you and may you always be well and happy, regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You probably noticed that I did mention religion that supports the corrupt system.
I see them as part of the system. As Jesus put it - "Part of the world".
He discouraged this. His followers were to be no part of the world, and I understand this to mean that politics and pure worship does not mix.

I see this advice as being alive in the spirit and not allowing the world to dominate thoughts and actions, not that we are not to live in and partake of what the world offers.

God gave this world to humans to rule over with Love and Justice to all living things. Thus Gods kingdom on earth as it is in heaven, is to rise to this spiritual calling and implement all of Gods advice and laws in our lives, always in remembrance of God and His Messengers.

Thus God gave us rule of the earth but our hearts are God's.

I see that Baha'u'llah has given this system as promised. It is up to the world now to implement a just rule and again become mindful of what God has given when undertaking that rule.

Regards Tony

 

[nPeace]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg please, take all the time you need. The thread isn't going anywhere, I don't think. I will respond when you are done, because I am about to study, and may not be on till tomorrow night.
Take care.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe, Armageddon (Revelation 16:14-16) will be the war to end all wars. It will not be a war that harms the innocent, but it will be selective - a righteous war to remove every trace of corruption, greed, and hypocrisy - political, commercial, and religious.
Only then, will peace and security be established.

What makes the Lesser Peace, any better in your opinion?
Have they submitted to God, as Bahaullah mentioned? Peace and security lays in our submission unto God,
Then why should they be spared destruction, at the hands of the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6, 7)? Or don't you believe the Prince of Peace will be fully engaged as is stated. Revelation 19:19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army.
Revelation 19:11-21
11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. 14 Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. 17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.” 19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. The scriptures say that those who worship the beast, are killed. Apparently they also have the mark of the beast on their right hand and forehead. - Revelation 14:9-12

What this seems to show is that those who give their support to, and trust in, the arm that is against God, will not survive, because they failed to put their faith in God, and trust in his promises.
I think that's compromise, and shows that they did not really belong to God.
What do you think?

General Allenby in world war one was under the thought that he was fighting the battle of Armageddon and retook Jerusalem, then Haifa and Akka in truly miraculous circumstances. Mount Carmel being in this area, the Mountain many prophecies mention in the last days. I am inclined to agree with him as the main battle was on the plains of Megiddo.

Armageddon - Wikipedia

The passage you posted is about Baha'u'llah, translated in English Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or 'Glory of the Lord'.
The beast was Islam, who had strayed far from Gods Word in the Quran. This Battle basically was the end of the Ottoman Empire.

There is a lot in your post, sorry have to go to work now.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg please, take all the time you need. The thread isn't going anywhere, I don't think. I will respond when you are done, because I am about to study, and may not be on till tomorrow night.
Take care.

Study well

The urgency of this issue is being ignored by the majority of humanity, as we know from scriptures, this is foretold.

I hope to make it back this afternoon to revisit and consider all your points yet to be replied to. Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

NDE? You mean "while still barely alive" experiences?

Being dead and being brought back from the death state are when these events happen.

Regards Tony

 

[viole]

Being dead and being brought back from the death state are when these events happen.

Regards Tony

Yes, How do you know?

Let me guess. The near-dead took a spiritual watch with him in the afterlife that is perfectly synchronized with the clock at the hospital. So, that they could compare the time those visions took place. Of course! You had those visions when your brain was flat-lining! Hallelujah.

I am afraid your bar to miracles is pretty low

Ciao

- viole