Is Paul arrogant?

[Simplelogic]

Paul claims that he is making up for things that lacked in Yeshua's sufferings:

24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (NIV)

Now I’m happy to be suffering for you. I’m completing what is missing from Christ’s sufferings with my body. I’m doing this for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24, CEB)

Paul claimed that his spirit could be with believers in other places. Much like the Holy Spirit:

3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:3-5 NIV.)

Paul tells others to follow ONLY his teachings (of which he NEVER quotes Yeshua)

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Tim. 2:15 NIV.)

Paul condemned fellowship with any that didn't adhere to his doctrine:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. (2 Thess 3:6 NIV.)

Paul elevated his own gospel which was "about" Yeshua. But had none of Yeshua's teachings:

25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, (1 Cor. 16:25 NIV.)

Rather than tell people to follow Jesus, as Jesus taught (Matt 4:19 "follow me"), Paul said:

16I call upon you, therefore, become ye followers of me; (1 Cor. 4:16 YLT.)

Paul claimed he was "set apart" at birth to reveal Yeshua,:

15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. (Gal. 1:15-17 NIV.)

Paul claims to be crucified to the world:

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. (Gal. 6:14 NIV.)

 

[Desert Snake]

All of these points are exagerations and misrepresentations of someone who wrote poetically. I think you forget that Xians were scrutinizing him, he couldn't have written these things literally and been considered legit by the early xians.

 

[b.finton]

All of these points are exagerations and misrepresentations of someone who wrote poetically.

The writer of the epistles claimed to be "dead in Christ."

No arguing with a dead man.

b.

 

[Lyndon]

Paul was the first anti christ foretold by Jesus, he was an evil man, and believe it or not Paul, not Jesus was the founder of most of the early christian church. People need to be educated about just how wrong he and his teachings are, otherwise they may entirely miss out on the great Blessing Jesus' actual words can bring to their life. The emphasis Of Paul's heresy over Jesus' wisdom in many Christian churches today is part and parcel of what's wrong with Christianity. Follow Jesus as your leader or follow Paul, you choice may decide just how warm your future is!!!
Me, I like it cool!!

 

[Simplelogic]

All of these points are exagerations and misrepresentations of someone who wrote poetically. I think you forget that Xians were scrutinizing him, he couldn't have written these things literally and been considered legit by the early xians.

Poetry??? Well, I must say, Paul was no Shakespeare. These remarks sound more like self diluted, narcissistic comments with traces of psychosis sprinkled throughout.

 

[Desert Snake]

Poetry??? Well, I must say, Paul was no Shakespeare. These remarks sound more like self diluted, narcissistic comments with traces of psychosis sprinkled throughout.

Lets say your right. Who cares?

 

[Simplelogic]

Paul was the first anti christ foretold by Jesus, he was an evil man, and believe it or not Paul, not Jesus was the founder of most of the early christian church. People need to be educated about just how wrong he and his teachings are, otherwise they may entirely miss out on the great Blessing Jesus' actual words can bring to their life. The emphasis Of Paul's heresy over Jesus' wisdom in many Christian churches today is part and parcel of what's wrong with Christianity. Follow Jesus as your leader or follow Paul, you choice may decide just how warm your future is!!!
Me, I like it cool!!

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matt 7: 15

26Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. 27Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. 28And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. Ezekiel 22: 26-28

Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Gen 49: 27 (Hey, wasn't Paul a Benjamite?)

 

[Simplelogic]

Lets say your right. Who cares?

I dunno. I suppose people who regard Paul as a valid apostle should care.

 

[outhouse]

Paul was the first anti christ foretold by Jesus,

That is false.

What date does this text come from you are using a source? after Paul?

And not one aspect points towards Paul's theology as being anti Christ.

he was an evil man

I don't know many people that do not have evil streaks, or made mistakes at one time or another.

Most of the time when a man insults another man, it is out of severe ignorance.

Paul, not Jesus was the founder of most of the early christian church

Neither founded any modern church. Jesus would have taught a church or temple Is not needed, and we can say this with confidence based on Jesus teacher, John the Baptist.

Paul only taught to a few houses that he had contact with. He also joined a movement in full swing moving forward with many other teachers and traditions existing as "good news" Paul joined, he did not found anything. His epistles were saved and found valuable yet he was not welcomed by all and had mixed reviews between different communities.

People need to be educated about just how wrong he and his teachings are

His teaching are a large part of the NT, to discount his teaching are to discount how Christianity formed and evolved in the Diaspora, as the Hellenistic movement grew away from cultural Judaism, which began before Jesus was born.

Pauls teachings are a reflection of how others understood the theology generated around the mythology that grew after Jesus martyrdom.

 

[Sonofason]

Paul claims that he is making up for things that lacked in Yeshua's sufferings:

24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (NIV)

Now I’m happy to be suffering for you. I’m completing what is missing from Christ’s sufferings with my body. I’m doing this for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24, CEB)

Paul claimed that his spirit could be with believers in other places. Much like the Holy Spirit:

3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:3-5 NIV.)

Paul tells others to follow ONLY his teachings (of which he NEVER quotes Yeshua)

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Tim. 2:15 NIV.)

Paul condemned fellowship with any that didn't adhere to his doctrine:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. (2 Thess 3:6 NIV.)

Paul elevated his own gospel which was "about" Yeshua. But had none of Yeshua's teachings:

25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, (1 Cor. 16:25 NIV.)

Rather than tell people to follow Jesus, as Jesus taught (Matt 4:19 "follow me"), Paul said:

16I call upon you, therefore, become ye followers of me; (1 Cor. 4:16 YLT.)

Paul claimed he was "set apart" at birth to reveal Yeshua,:

15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. (Gal. 1:15-17 NIV.)

Paul claims to be crucified to the world:

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. (Gal. 6:14 NIV.)

It all sounds like good advice to me.

 

[Pegg]

Col1:24 I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and I am undergoing the tribulations of the Christ that are yet lacking IN MY FLESH in behalf of his body, which is his congregation.

Paul says that he is the one lacking....not Christ is lacking. Why don't you get a better translation? It might help u understand what you are reading.

 

[b.finton]

Folks, Shaul was dead in sin; Paul was dead in the anointing. Who is Apollos (Appolonius? doesn't matter), as the Spirit speaking through the dead man asks in another place?

The gospels and epistles were written "in a mystery." This discussion, like most I've read, makes no effort to establish parameters. Literalism kills.

In the words ascribed to Y'Shua, sometimes one reads the words of a man, but mostly not.

In the words written by the foolish preacher Paul, sometime one reads the words of the Yahushua, often not.

The intricacies of rightly dividing the word of truth is more than a matter of word division, even in the Hebrew: which of the words belong to the prophet, and which to the Prophet? (There's only One Prophet, many prophets). In the Greek writings, properly dividing the word of truth is primarily a matter of correctly attributing the words to the man writing or to the Spirit behind the dead man's pen.

The man Shaul/Paul is the winnowing fan. This is understood from the message to the church at Ephesus. Ephesus, and the entirety of the Kingdom of Names, is within you.

Mystery writing is not historical writing. The history and actors of the period are not crucial to the message.

b.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Do you understand now why ''Christianity" is infact Paulinism. They follow Paul, instead of the Christ peace be upon him.
The disciples were always negative of paul. They never trusted him and even rebuked his false teachings.

 

[Desert Snake]

Paul didn't do away with the laws, Jesus did. Rather, Jesus modified and explained various laws. The argument that the "works" in 'works over faith' concept found in most versions of the NT (they were added Epistles), means "Torah laws", as in OT laws for Jews, is incorrect. It means 'good works', like exampled in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

 

[Simplelogic]

Paul didn't do away with the laws, Jesus did. Rather, Jesus modified and explained various laws. The argument that the "works" in 'works over faith' concept found in most versions of the NT (they were added Epistles), means "Torah laws", as in OT laws for Jews, is incorrect. It means 'good works', like exampled in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

I would challenge you to provide examples where Yeshua changes or diminishes from the Torah.

As far as Paul goes. Here is a short list of where Paul claims emphatically that the law is no more:

Paul is blunt in Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Cor. 3:11-17, Romans 7:1-3 et seq, and Galatians 3:19 et seq. The Law is "abolished," "done away with," "nailed to a tree," "has faded away,' and was "only ordained by angels...who are no gods."

If we were to cite Paul's condemnations of the Law in one string, the point is self-evident that Paul abrogated the Law for everyone. See Eph. 2:15 ("setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations"); Col. 2:14 ("having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;") 2 Cor. 3:14 ("old covenant"); Gal. 5:1 ("yoke of bondage"); Rom. 10:4 ("Christ is the end of the law"); 2 Cor. 3:7 ("law of death"); Gal. 5:1 ("entangles"); Col. 2:14-17 ("a shadow"); Rom. 3:27 ("law of works"); Rom. 4:15 ("works wrath"); 2 Cor. 3:9(ministration of condemnation); Gal. 2:16 ("cannot justify"); Gal. 3:21 (cannot give life); Col. 2:14 ("wiped out" exaleipsas); Gal. 3:19, 4:8-9 ("given by angels...who are no gods [and are] weak and beggarly celestial beings/elements").

Finally, in Romans 7:1-6, Paul claims when Jesus died, the husband died and this dissolved the Law's bonds between the husband (God of Sinai) and wife (God's people). This henceforth made the "law dead to us." (Romans 7:4.) This death-of-God-the-husband released the Jews, Paul contends, and when Christ resurrected the bonds of marriage with the old God were not renewed. (The implication, we contend, was Paul meant a new God emerges or otherwise if the same husband-God resurrected, why wasn't the bond to the Law renewed? Paulinists come near to admitting this is the only logical meaning while even confessing they are uncomfortable with the passage's 'seemingly' polytheistic explanation... Uggh. On our thorough analysis of Romans 7:1-6, see our webpage discussion.)

 

[outhouse]

The gospels and epistles were written "in a mystery."

This is not known to be true by credible scholars. Do you have any credible sources to provide that back your statement?

Mystery writing is not historical writing

Good thing this is not mystery writing then.

It Is theology based on Judaism, and the authors were telling traditions in rhetorical prose to preserve such. The gospels were a sort of historical tale, and written to be such.

 

[outhouse]

If we were to cite Paul's condemnations of the Law

The Aramaic Judaism movement in Galilee Jesus taught died with him. It had nothing to do with what you know as Christianity.

Christianity was a divorce from Cultural Judaism, as Hellenistic Judaism went its own way. The movement was a Hellenistic movement in the Diaspora, Paul did not start it, and without Paul we would still have the same religion. Your blaming Paul for Hellenistic teachings of Judaism that the people were perverting to make the religion more acceptable to Gentiles. Paul did not do that, he joined into that.

 

[JM2C]

Paul claims that he is making up for things that lacked in Yeshua's sufferings:

24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my fleshwhat is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (NIV)

Now I’m happy to be suffering for you.I’m completing what is missing from Christ’s sufferings with my body. I’m doing this for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24, CEB)

Christ’s atonement for sin is sufficient enough and lacks nothing.

Remember what the Lord Jesus said:

Mt 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

Jn 15:20 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

What Christians are experiencing as far as persecutions –of body and mind and spiritual- like what Paul and the other apostles had experienced by preaching the gospel is what Paul meant by “fill up on my part that which is lacking [where the reference is not to the vicarious sufferings of Christ, but] of the afflictions of Christ [from which Christ’s followers must not shrink, whether sufferings of body or mind or spiritual] in my/Christians flesh for his body's sake, which is the church;”

Every time the apostles and Christians today preach the gospel and persecuted by preaching it they are filling up what was intended for Christ. IOW, they are persecuting Christians as if they are Christ Himself or “the body of Christ, which is the church”.

1Pe 4:14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

Ac 5:41 The apostles left the high council rejoicing that God had counted them worthy to suffer dishonor for the name of Jesus.

Christians sufferings cannot in anyway change what the Lord Jesus did on the cross as if it’s still lacking or insufficient or not enough.

 

[Sonofason]

Paul didn't do away with the laws, Jesus did. Rather, Jesus modified and explained various laws. The argument that the "works" in 'works over faith' concept found in most versions of the NT (they were added Epistles), means "Torah laws", as in OT laws for Jews, is incorrect. It means 'good works', like exampled in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

In your first statement, you suggest that Jesus did away with the laws. I assume you mean the laws of Moses. If this is true, why did Jesus say, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

While Jesus has paid the price for all of our sins, all is not accomplished. God's Judgement has not come upon us yet for our neglect of those Laws. Jesus has not yet established His kingdom on earth. The wedding has not taken place. Satan and all of his comrades are not yet in Hell. As human beings, we remain under the Laws of Moses. We all still deserve to suffer as Christ suffered. We all still deserve eternal death. What's changed about this?

You are indeed correct that Jesus simplified, rather compacted those laws into a smaller bundle, but nothing has changed.

Your argument about works is interesting. Indeed, we are not justified by "good works", but we are justified by our faith in Christ, and therefore in our obedience to God. Good works, like "the Good Samaritan" works don't get anyone in heaven. The good works are not something for which we deserve a reward of any kind. Because of the Laws that God has established, including the compact version of those Laws as given by Christ, those good works are expected. You don't deserve rewards for doing that which is expected of you. If we should receive any rewards for our good works, it will not be because we deserve them, but rather it would be because our God is loving and kind. It would be because our God has abundant mercy and grace for those who love Him, despite the hell that they deserve.

 

[JM2C]

Paul claimed that his spirit could be with believers in other places. Much like the Holy Spirit:

3 For my part, even though I am not physically present,I am with you in spirit. As one who ispresent with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 Sowhen you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, andthe power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Cor. 5:3-5 NIV.)

”I am with you in spirit” means “I am with you in thoughts, with you in my prayers, with you in my inner being”

If a pastor today is away from his congregation he would say the same thing. Even if I’m in New York and you are California my spirit, my thoughts, and my prayers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, be with you all as if I’m with you physically there in California. There is nothing wrong with that.