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Paul the liar

Scrooge

certainty seeking
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

(Rom 3:7 KJV)


Paul testify in verse 3:7 to the truth of God abounding through his lie. So what was his lie? First let’s take a look at what is “unbelief” in verse three.

Strong's notes on the Greek word translated unbelief:

1. faithlessness

2. (negatively) disbelief (lack of Christian faith)

3. (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience)


The BDAG lexicon states, “…unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions, lack of belief, unbelief” they also note in relation to this word , “ a lack of commitment to a relationship or pledge, unfaithfulness…”

And lastly we will look at the Liddell, Scott and Jones; LSJ Lexicon;

…1. disobey, τινί Hdt. 6.108, freq.in Trag.and Pl., A. Pr. 640, S. Ant. 381 (lyr.), Tr. 1183, 1224, Pl. Ap. 29c, al.: abs., to be disobedient, τοῖς ἀπιστοῦσιν τάδε in these things, S. Ant. 219, cf. 656; ἢν δ' ἀπιστῶσι but if they refuse to comply, E. Supp. 389, cf. Pl. Lg. 941c.

2. to be faithless, εἰ ἡμεῖς ἀπιστοῦμεν, ἐκεῖνος πιστὸς μένει 2Ti_2:13.….


So with that being understood, if we consider what faith is, unfaithfulness would be the fruit of or the result; disobedience.


Now that we have this established let’s take another look at the text in question in the context of chapter three.

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed (intrusted) the oracles (Utterances) of God.

But what if some (Jews) have been unfaithful (living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony not following the life GOD intended; living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer)? Shall their unfaithfulness (living a poor example) make void the faithfulness of God? No, by no means. Yea, let God be true, though every man be a liar (those who are living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony, not following to the full extent the life GOD intended; therefore living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer; liars), as it is written, " So that thou must be justified in thy acts and must overcome when thou art judged." If then our unrighteousness (our living a poor example, our lie) established the righteousness of God (still furthered HIS Word; HIS divine utterances) what shall we say, Is not God unjust who taketh vengeance? I speak as a man. No, by no means. In that case, how shall God judge the world? For all have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of GOD.



(Still speaking as a man. Continuing my argument) For if by my falsehood (my unrighteousness, my unfaithful poor example of not following to the full extent the life GOD intended; therefore living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer; my lie) the truth of God hath abounded (furthered His Laws; the LIFE HE would have us live to his glory) why am I yet condemned as a sinner? And not rather, (as be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

(Rom 3:8 KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable (unfaithfully living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony); there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (even the Jews; Paul prior to Christ were living an unfaithful poor example, not following to the full extent the life GOD intended. For a little leaven leavened the whole; whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bone; liars) Even so the truth of GOD abounded to HIS glory. So why are we yet judged as sinners? We are still getting His Word out even though our lives are a poor testimony to the Divine utterances. So let's do evil that good may come! Blasphemous! This thinking is blasphemous; those who think this way, their damnation is just!

(Rom 3:10-12)

In verse five he ties this unbelief; unfaithfulness to unrighteousness (disobedience). In doing this he speaks collectively; including himself. But if our unrighteousness commend ( puts forth) the righteousness of God (because we have the Utterances of GOD and teach them, even though we ain't living them), what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) (Rom 3:5)



In verse three He says, "What if some (Jews) have been unfaithful (a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony)? Shall their unfaithfulness (their poor example; inadvertently their lie to HIS glory) make void the faithfulness of God? No, by no means. Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written (for our edification), That thou (we) mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.



So now he synominously connected unbelief, unrighteousness, to every man (Jew) being a liar due to their unfaithful, unrighteous living while proclaiming God's Utterances. And in the process included himself amoungst his brethren in verse five.



In verse seven Paul is still continuing his argument that he started in verse five. (I speak as a man) And all this is being said in respect to what he had already declared. That unbelief; unrighteous living when sharing God's utterances was lying. Paul wasn't saying that he purposefully lied to promote God's glory. He is admitting that he missed the mark at times as has everyone, but regardless GOD's utterences; His righteousness still got promoted (commended). (Rom 3:3-7)
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I think his lie, or one of his lies is his vision of Jesus on the Damascus road.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Paul admits to not being a good writer or speaker which is evident in Romans 3. Not that he is a liar but his speech is confusing as heck. It seems to be part of the arguement that if we sin does that not glorify God by raising the bar on his mercy? Which may be the case if we can't help sinning. But if we use it as an excuse to sin our condemnation is just. So there is a fine line between right and wrong.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

(Rom 3:7 KJV)


Paul testify in verse 3:7 to the truth of God abounding through his lie. So what was his lie? First let’s take a look at what is “unbelief” in verse three.

Strong's notes on the Greek word translated unbelief:

1. faithlessness

2. (negatively) disbelief (lack of Christian faith)

3. (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience)


The BDAG lexicon states, “…unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions, lack of belief, unbelief” they also note in relation to this word , “ a lack of commitment to a relationship or pledge, unfaithfulness…”

And lastly we will look at the Liddell, Scott and Jones; LSJ Lexicon;

…1. disobey, τινί Hdt. 6.108, freq.in Trag.and Pl., A. Pr. 640, S. Ant. 381 (lyr.), Tr. 1183, 1224, Pl. Ap. 29c, al.: abs., to be disobedient, τοῖς ἀπιστοῦσιν τάδε in these things, S. Ant. 219, cf. 656; ἢν δ' ἀπιστῶσι but if they refuse to comply, E. Supp. 389, cf. Pl. Lg. 941c.

2. to be faithless, εἰ ἡμεῖς ἀπιστοῦμεν, ἐκεῖνος πιστὸς μένει 2Ti_2:13.….


So with that being understood, if we consider what faith is, unfaithfulness would be the fruit of or the result; disobedience.


Now that we have this established let’s take another look at the text in question in the context of chapter three.

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed (intrusted) the oracles (Utterances) of God.

But what if some (Jews) have been unfaithful (living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony not following the life GOD intended; living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer)? Shall their unfaithfulness (living a poor example) make void the faithfulness of God? No, by no means. Yea, let God be true, though every man be a liar (those who are living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony, not following to the full extent the life GOD intended; therefore living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer; liars), as it is written, " So that thou must be justified in thy acts and must overcome when thou art judged." If then our unrighteousness (our living a poor example, our lie) established the righteousness of God (still furthered HIS Word; HIS divine utterances) what shall we say, Is not God unjust who taketh vengeance? I speak as a man. No, by no means. In that case, how shall God judge the world? For all have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of GOD.



(Still speaking as a man. Continuing my argument) For if by my falsehood (my unrighteousness, my unfaithful poor example of not following to the full extent the life GOD intended; therefore living in unbelief but proclaiming to be a believer; my lie) the truth of God hath abounded (furthered His Laws; the LIFE HE would have us live to his glory) why am I yet condemned as a sinner? And not rather, (as be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

(Rom 3:8 KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable (unfaithfully living a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony); there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (even the Jews; Paul prior to Christ were living an unfaithful poor example, not following to the full extent the life GOD intended. For a little leaven leavened the whole; whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bone; liars) Even so the truth of GOD abounded to HIS glory. So why are we yet judged as sinners? We are still getting His Word out even though our lives are a poor testimony to the Divine utterances. So let's do evil that good may come! Blasphemous! This thinking is blasphemous; those who think this way, their damnation is just!

(Rom 3:10-12)

In verse five he ties this unbelief; unfaithfulness to unrighteousness (disobedience). In doing this he speaks collectively; including himself. But if our unrighteousness commend ( puts forth) the righteousness of God (because we have the Utterances of GOD and teach them, even though we ain't living them), what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) (Rom 3:5)



In verse three He says, "What if some (Jews) have been unfaithful (a poor example, therefore making a bad testimony)? Shall their unfaithfulness (their poor example; inadvertently their lie to HIS glory) make void the faithfulness of God? No, by no means. Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written (for our edification), That thou (we) mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.



So now he synominously connected unbelief, unrighteousness, to every man (Jew) being a liar due to their unfaithful, unrighteous living while proclaiming God's Utterances. And in the process included himself amoungst his brethren in verse five.



In verse seven Paul is still continuing his argument that he started in verse five. (I speak as a man) And all this is being said in respect to what he had already declared. That unbelief; unrighteous living when sharing God's utterances was lying. Paul wasn't saying that he purposefully lied to promote God's glory. He is admitting that he missed the mark at times as has everyone, but regardless GOD's utterences; His righteousness still got promoted (commended). (Rom 3:3-7)
Paul was a Jew/Saul.

The differences are different groups, Paul also addresses Paulinists, and other groups, in his writings. Whatever problem was occuring in a group/church, Paul addressed it, with, if you are a Christian, authority of the order of Melchizedek.
 

Scrooge

certainty seeking
Not that he is a liar but his speech is confusing as heck. .
But he said in
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Pretty plain and easy to understand. So what was the lie? Please reread the post it explains it.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
But he said in
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Pretty plain and easy to understand. So what was the lie? Please reread the post it explains it.

Hypothetical situation. Simply saying that if it's good for God then it's not a sin. A hypothetical situation might be Paul trying to fit in with Gentiles, acting like Gentiles so that his preaching of God might be more easily accepted. All I can think of,
 
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