Paul the apostle?

[Jeremiah Ames]

That's good, there are people who try to make things literal when they are spiritua,. but I think the opposite is just as true where people try to spiritualize what should be take literally.

Since we’re speaking of Paul.
Here is something from him

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Kenny]

Since we’re speaking of Paul.
Here is something from him

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

I like that position. IMO, it exemplifies what Jesus demonstrated. The Law said "stone the woman", but the life of the Spirit gives life and mercy. What is your take?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I like that position. IMO, it exemplifies what Jesus demonstrated. The Law said "stone the woman", but the life of the Spirit gives life and mercy. What is your take?

I’m with you totally.
So why do I find so many in the churches still putting the law above mercy?
My guess? Doctrine is taught in the seminaries the same way that it’s been taught since the dark ages. It will be nice when the religious fundamentalists actually start listening to Jesus and acting like Him, and give up their outdated beliefs and hypocrisy.
The country was moving closer to God, imo, up until a little more than a year ago when the fundamentalists set us back significantly. But it’s only temporary.

 

[metis]

I like that position. IMO, it exemplifies what Jesus demonstrated. The Law said "stone the woman", but the life of the Spirit gives life and mercy. What is your take?

Even the Law itself demands mercy if it's appropriate, which is repeated over and over again by the prophets.

BTW, are you opposed to capital punishment?

 

[Kenny]

I’m with you totally.
So why do I find so many in the churches still putting the law above mercy?
My guess? Doctrine is taught in the seminaries the same way that it’s been taught since the dark ages. It will be nice when the religious fundamentalists actually start listening to Jesus and acting like Him, and give up their outdated beliefs and hypocrisy.
The country was moving closer to God, imo, up until a little more than a year ago when the fundamentalists set us back significantly. But it’s only temporary.

Point taken, although I see a shift. But wasn't it the same in the time of Jesus? There are always those who will be harsher in

I wouldn'd use the word "fundamentalist" just because it is too much of a broad brush, IMO. Not to mention that it wasn't just the "fundamentalist" who made it happen unless 50% of America is fundamentalist as you define it.

But, we also have to be careful because "in the same measure that you judge..." if we go around throwing the stone at those who are more strict in interpretation, aren't become the very thing we were against? Judgement instead of mercy?

 

[Kenny]

Even the Law itself demands mercy if it's appropriate, which is repeated over and over again by the prophets.

BTW, are you opposed to capital punishment?

Agreed and can be seen throughout the Tannakh. Even cities of refuge were created throughout Israel for that very purpose.

NT mercy is mercy on steroids... which has nothing to do with getting a ticket when you go over the speed limit or a death penalty if you mass murdered.

 

[metis]

NT mercy is mercy on steroids... which has nothing to do with getting a ticket when you go over the speed limit or a death penalty if you mass murdered.

It's still a matter of "Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone".

In today's day and age, in any country with jails and prisons, there simply is no need for the death penalty. Neither is it "pro-life". It simply is based on revenge.

 

[Kenny]

It's still a matter of "Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone".

In today's day and age, in any country with jails and prisons, there simply is no need for the death penalty. Neither is it "pro-life". It simply is based on revenge.

I can't say you don't have a point.

 

[Kenny]

It's still a matter of "Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone".

In today's day and age, in any country with jails and prisons, there simply is no need for the death penalty. Neither is it "pro-life". It simply is based on revenge.

Out of curiosity... in your view, is there a point where the atrocities against humankind is so great as to say... "My God have mercy with your soul, speak your peace with him, because it is time" and not have "revenge" as the heart motive?

 

[metis]

Out of curiosity... in your view, is there a point where the atrocities against humankind is so great as to say... "My God have mercy with your soul, speak your peace with him, because it is time" and not have "revenge" as the heart motive?

No, because one aspect of the death penalty is that it almost assumes that the offender will never repent and change. If we truly believe in repentance and forgiveness, then we need to realize that time can lead to change.

 

[Kenny]

No, because one aspect of the death penalty is that it almost assumes that the offender will never repent and change. If we truly believe in repentance and forgiveness, then we need to realize that time can lead to change.

That is true...

Being human, I guess I still struggle with "at what point". Just reading about the inventor who decapitated and killed a woman doing a story on him and finding a hard drive with multiple tortures and murders, there is still a part in me (that I'm working on) that says "He can change now, if he wants, and then thank God personally for His mercy since you still get a ticket even though God forgives you.

 

[metis]

That is true...

Being human, I guess I still struggle with "at what point". Just reading about the inventor who decapitated and killed a woman doing a story on him and finding a hard drive with multiple tortures and murders, there is still a part in me (that I'm working on) that says "He can change now, if he wants, and then thank God personally for His mercy since you still get a ticket even though God forgives you.

I once went to a seminar on capital punishment several decades ago (am I aging myself?), and a United Methodist minister said this (paraphrased): "I am not in favor of executing anyone, but there are some deaths I don't grieve over".