Patriots owner charged with soliciting prostitutes:

[Subduction Zone]

I get your against legalization but what is your solution while keeping it illegal. It is not going away. How do you intend to protect the women and men in prostitution?

With regulation, you would control the environment for the prostitutes. You could enforce medical regulations. You could enforce training requirements. You could enforce age requirements. You could stiffen penalties for not meeting these regulations. You could use the tax money from prostitution to help prevent it and help prostitutes that want to leave.

I am not saying any of this would be done but it all could be done with regulation. How are you going to help without legality?

We have the porn industry and Strip clubs both legal currently almost everywhere. The porn industry is basically legalized prostitution anyway. Strip clubs tend to lend themselves to prostitution currently. What is your fix?

Decriminalization does take away many of the problems. And yes, there are good sides to regulation, but that downside is that we will still have many of the same problems that we do today. There will be freelancers. There will be pimps abusing women and there will be human trafficking.

One thing on trafficking, if trafficked women were given asylum, and it would be hard to find someone that was not more deserving, how long would the sites that import what amount to illegal aliens for this work? The workers could decide that they had it with the business and turn themselves in. I don't see this happening under Trump with his anti immigrant stance but could be an easy way to end the sort of massage parlor that Kraft went to.

 

[bobhikes]

Decriminalization does take away many of the problems. And yes, there are good sides to regulation, but that downside is that we will still have many of the same problems that we do today. There will be freelancers. There will be pimps abusing women and there will be human trafficking.

One thing on trafficking, if trafficked women were given asylum, and it would be hard to find someone that was not more deserving, how long would the sites that import what amount to illegal aliens for this work? The workers could decide that they had it with the business and turn themselves in. I don't see this happening under Trump with his anti immigrant stance but could be an easy way to end the sort of massage parlor that Kraft went to.

Do you know how easy it is to find a massage parlor for extras. There are probably 5 within 5 miles of you. Why aren't they being closed daily, they are doing criminal activity. The parlors are physical buildings. Its not like prostitutes which can use burner phones. Why do you believe they are all using trafficked women. Some are for sure but most of the high scale don't. Are you only worried about the poor immigrant prostitutes. The ones that make the big bucks and can live the high life are OK. That's why it exists and will always exist because people are hypocritical about it. If people are getting hurt its bad but if people can make a livable wage and like doing it its OK.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you know how easy it is to find a massage parlor for extras. There are probably 5 within 5 miles of you. Why aren't they being closed daily, they are doing criminal activity. The parlors are physical buildings. Its not like prostitutes which can use burner phones. Why do you believe they are all using trafficked women. Some are for sure but most of the high scale don't. Are you only worried about the poor immigrant prostitutes. The ones that make the big bucks and can live the high life are OK. That's why it exists and will always exist because people are hypocritical about it. If people are getting hurt its bad but if people can make a livable wage and like doing it its OK.

I don't know about that. Massage parlors appear to be almost exclusively Asian. The women live in the parlors and work seven days a week often twelve hours a day or more. I had a business not in a poor part of town and had one open up across the street from mine. Before that I was pretty ignorant about that sort of business. Until that time I had no idea how common they are. They exist because they do provide cheap sexual services. Yes, the high end ones will always exist, but one solves the problems that one can solve first. Since these are trafficked women they do appear to qualify for asylum. If that was well known and if owners constantly lost employees that way at least this source of prostitution would dry up. They cannot exist without cheap, and that is going to mean trafficked, labor.

 

[bobhikes]

I don't know about that. Massage parlors appear to be almost exclusively Asian. The women live in the parlors and work seven days a week often twelve hours a day or more. I had a business not in a poor part of town and had one open up across the street from mine. Before that I was pretty ignorant about that sort of business. Until that time I had no idea how common they are. They exist because they do provide cheap sexual services. Yes, the high end ones will always exist, but one solves the problems that one can solve first. Since these are trafficked women they do appear to qualify for asylum. If that was well known and if owners constantly lost employees that way at least this source of prostitution would dry up. They cannot exist without cheap, and that is going to mean trafficked, labor.

Wrong, Some are college students, Some are mature women, Some are men(Hardly ever asian). If you check out a site online they advertise the girls or guys race, sometimes country. Just because across the street from you a slave one opened doesn't mean all of them are slave run. No the source of prostitution will never dry up because people will always need money and be willing to do anything to get it.

 

[Cooky]

Seriously, who here hasn't had a prostitute. I mean, let's be real with ourselves.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wrong, Some are college students, Some are mature women, Some are men(Hardly ever asian). If you check out a site online they advertise the girls or guys race, sometimes country. Just because across the street from you a slave one opened doesn't mean all of them are slave run. No the source of prostitution will never dry up because people will always need money and be willing to do anything to get it.

And those are the sort of people that would benefit from decriminalization. Not from legalization and regulation. Legalization and regulation would only help the high end prostitutes. My solution only dealt with the massage parlor end of it.

And yes, I am well aware of the backpage prostitutes too. My housemates son was a drug addict that would pimp his girlfriend out. One warning, he would sometimes burglarize someone's house when the john and his girl were getting busy. There are other risks besides venereal diseases from those providers. He got caught. Let a little DNA behind from an accident. He is out now and seems to be doing okay, but he is still in a halfway house. I worry about what will happen to him when he is on his own. Like most drug users when straight he is a decent person. When he was busted the last time she earned his bail money and had me hold it since I was one of the few people that would not run away with it or take a percentage. It made me a little complicit. Personally at that time I preferred him in jail since it was the safest place for him, I was not going to sign for the bond, but I could not totally turn my back on him. At any rate they are both out, she was convicted on a separate charge. Both in Seattle. Probably both seeing each other but since they legally cannot yet I could not swear to this. And both working. So I doubt if she has gone back yet.

From my personal knowledge of the risks involved with that sort of prostitute I would avoid it. Of course if someone engages in this sort of activity there will be some degree of risk no matter where one goes. Decriminalization would lower that risk as well. A victim of crime from that sort of activity would not be afraid to turn in the people involved. That would lower some of the associated risk. At any rate we are just spitballing here. I am not claiming that prostitution is immoral and that everyone involved should be put away. I have known too many, sometimes by surprise, that work in that are. Most of them are just people dealing with a difficult situation. Making the activity illegal does not appear to help.

 

[bobhikes]

And those are the sort of people that would benefit from decriminalization. Not from legalization and regulation. Legalization and regulation would only help the high end prostitutes. My solution only dealt with the massage parlor end of it.

And yes, I am well aware of the backpage prostitutes too. My housemates son was a drug addict that would pimp his girlfriend out. One warning, he would sometimes burglarize someone's house when the john and his girl were getting busy. There are other risks besides venereal diseases from those providers. He got caught. Let a little DNA behind from an accident. He is out now and seems to be doing okay, but he is still in a halfway house. I worry about what will happen to him when he is on his own. Like most drug users when straight he is a decent person. When he was busted the last time she earned his bail money and had me hold it since I was one of the few people that would not run away with it or take a percentage. It made me a little complicit. Personally at that time I preferred him in jail since it was the safest place for him, I was not going to sign for the bond, but I could not totally turn my back on him. At any rate they are both out, she was convicted on a separate charge. Both in Seattle. Probably both seeing each other but since they legally cannot yet I could not swear to this. And both working. So I doubt if she has gone back yet.

From my personal knowledge of the risks involved with that sort of prostitute I would avoid it. Of course if someone engages in this sort of activity there will be some degree of risk no matter where one goes. Decriminalization would lower that risk as well. A victim of crime from that sort of activity would not be afraid to turn in the people involved. That would lower some of the associated risk. At any rate we are just spitballing here. I am not claiming that prostitution is immoral and that everyone involved should be put away. I have known too many, sometimes by surprise, that work in that are. Most of them are just people dealing with a difficult situation. Making the activity illegal does not appear to help.

All of this and I still don't know how your view will help. Now you speak of decriminalization without regulation as helpful, how? You have only complain about the poor victims but produced no actual better outcome for them. Decriminalizing prostitution without regulation gives more power to the bad guys, once you pay me back or do what I say you are free and have committed no crime. So just put up with this a little longer and tomorrow every thing will be great. Except tomorrow will never come.

How about think about it a little bit more find a solution that helps the greater amount of people, not just female, enslaved prostitutes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Seriously, who here hasn't had a prostitute. I mean, let's be real with ourselves.

I never have.

 

[Vinayaka]

I never have.

Me neither. Can hardly even think of it. I'd say most people haven't, but then maybe I move with the right crowd.

Never gone to see peelers either, for that matter.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Seriously, who here hasn't had a prostitute. I mean, let's be real with ourselves.

Well, from a certain perspective or perspectives, you could make the argument that I did indeed pay for having sex with my first wife...

Other than that, no.

 

[Cooky]

I never have.

...Really..?

(Just kidding. Neither have I)

 

[Revoltingest]

Me neither. Can hardly even think of it. I'd say most people haven't, but then maybe I move with the right crowd.

Never gone to see peelers either, for that matter.

I went to a titty bar once with friends long long ago.
Once was enuf.

 

[Vinayaka]

I went to a titty bar once with friends long long ago.
Once was enuf.

Revolt 1, Vinayaka 0. I've been invited a couple of times. Glad I had public transport nearby, or those idiots may have had me sitting outside for a few hours. I can go gambling though, the horses are fun at $2 a race.

 

[Revoltingest]

...Really..?

(Just kidding. Neither have I)

Really.
I heard that they want to be paid.

 

[Revoltingest]

Revolt 1, Vinayaka 0. I've been invited a couple of times. Glad I had public transport nearby, or those idiots may have had me sitting outside for a few hours. I can go gambling though, the horses are fun at $2 a race.

Gambling wasn't even worth trying once.
Revolt 1, Vinny 1

 

[Vinayaka]

Gambling wasn't even worth trying once.
Revolt 1, Vinny 1

It's not actually gambling, it's more a night of wind and sunshine, like going to a ball game. The horses are secondary to that. But then I had horses around in my childhood, and like them for who they are. Smart animals, and I like their smell. Sure beats cows, pigs, and chickens.

 

[Cooky]

I went to a titty bar once with friends long long ago.
Once was enuf.

Me too. I was just of age to legally enter, and when I went in for.a lap dance, that my friends forced on me, the stripper basically robbed me. Literally. She said GIVE ME 20 DOLLARS, so I did, and then she said it again, and then she walked away.

I felt violated.

 

[Revoltingest]

Me too. I was just of age to legally enter, and when I went in for.a lap dance, that my friends forced on me, the stripper basically robbed me. Literally. She said GIVE ME 20 DOLLARS, so I did, and then she said it again, and then she walked away.

I felt violated.

$40 is pretty cheap tuition for an advanced coure in human behavior.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All of this and I still don't know how your view will help. Now you speak of decriminalization without regulation as helpful, how? You have only complain about the poor victims but produced no actual better outcome for them. Decriminalizing prostitution without regulation gives more power to the bad guys, once you pay me back or do what I say you are free and have committed no crime. So just put up with this a little longer and tomorrow every thing will be great. Except tomorrow will never come.

How about think about it a little bit more find a solution that helps the greater amount of people, not just female, enslaved prostitutes.

The problem with criminalization is that it empowers pimps. The girls can't go to the police. If it was decriminalized their actions would not be illegal, but the pimp's actions would be.

 

[Subduction Zone]

$40 is pretty cheap tuition for an advanced coure in human behavior.

I want to Vegas once. I was there for a Karate tournament. A bunch of us not the town one night and gambling was on the schedule. I lost $20.00. I was not impressed. Then we went to a strip bar. These were NOT the girls one sees in movies. Again I was not impressed. I don't remember any lap dancing there, but I did tip the girls a dollar to go away. They got the message. They turned their attention to my more inebriated friends. I have no desire to go back.